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Comments on: To Grow, A Hard Task https://www.aoiusa.org/to-grow-a-hard-task/ A Research and Educational Organization that engages the cultural issues of the day within the Orthodox Christian Tradition Wed, 15 Jul 2009 23:00:28 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.3.3 By: Joe https://www.aoiusa.org/to-grow-a-hard-task/#comment-5023 Wed, 15 Jul 2009 23:00:28 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2855#comment-5023 But then again Coin may be referring to the OCA with its monasteries like New Skete, Protection of MHT (of “Murder at Holy Cross” infamy) and vaudevillian monasteries filled with monastics who parrot the words Schmemann and Hopko to their pilgrims.

BTW, the vaudeville part of “vaudevillian” comes from OCA Church Father, Fr. Alexander Schmemann who wrote in his Journals: “More and more often it seems to me that revising the monasticism that everybody so ecstatically talks about–or at least trying to revive it–can be done only by liquidating first of all the monastic institution itself, i.e. the whole vaudeville of klobuks, cowls, stylization, etc.”

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By: Joe https://www.aoiusa.org/to-grow-a-hard-task/#comment-5021 Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:34:52 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2855#comment-5021 I suspect that Coin’s “guru-pseudo monasticism” is a straw man of his own creation that he used to highlight what he believes is his own wonderful spiritual discernment: “For those with eyes to see.”

It is only one small step downhill for those who can take it on faith that Coin indeed has the right kind of “eyes” to then buy into his amorphous attack on the Orthodox “Old World.”

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By: Michael Bauman https://www.aoiusa.org/to-grow-a-hard-task/#comment-5002 Tue, 14 Jul 2009 02:10:26 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2855#comment-5002 Joe, I have no idea what the whole sentence means, it makes no sense to me either. Genuine monastacism is important and necessary for the growth and the maturity the Church. In the specific case to which I refer, I never learned the monk’s name that was giving the advice, that was a closely guarded secret.

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By: Joe https://www.aoiusa.org/to-grow-a-hard-task/#comment-5001 Tue, 14 Jul 2009 00:48:12 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2855#comment-5001 Which jurisidiction or jurisdictional body is using “guru-pseudo monasticism” as an avenue for growth?

Harry, Michael, if you know who these people are, then tell us because we’ve got to get the word out about these evil people!

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By: Joe https://www.aoiusa.org/to-grow-a-hard-task/#comment-5000 Mon, 13 Jul 2009 22:44:23 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2855#comment-5000 Michael,

How does what you describe fit into this preface: “There are some efforts at ‘cultifying’ Orthodoxy pretending to be growth avenues.”

“Growth avenues?”

Which jurisidiction or jurisdictional body is using “guru-pseudo monasticism” as an avenue for growth?

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By: Michael Bauman https://www.aoiusa.org/to-grow-a-hard-task/#comment-4999 Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:22:32 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2855#comment-4999 Joe, guru pseudo-monasticism, involves situation in which lay Orthodox attach themselves to supposed Orthodox monastics without guidance from their parish priest or bishop. The monastic then becomes their ‘spiritual’ father (usually) Often the lay person is directed to ignore the parish priest and anything he may say because no parish priest is ‘spiritual enough’ to give authentic guidance.

The upshot is that susceptible lay Orthodox are effectively taken out of community and give the impression that they are superior to anyone else because they have such an exalted ‘spiritual father’.

What I describe is not hypothetical. I occured in my own parish. Fortunately, it was not wide spread, but I have heard similar situations described in other parishes.

I suspect it happens rather more often to converts who have been exposed to eastern pagan religions and the erstatz mysticism popularized the the proponents of such systems prior to coming to the Church. It is yet another fruit, IMO however, of the lack of ecclesial order in the United States: frauds are given free reign, genuine spiritual formation is ignored or parishes are too large to allow for any. The spiritual disciplines are not really taught, particularly confession.

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By: Joe https://www.aoiusa.org/to-grow-a-hard-task/#comment-4991 Sat, 11 Jul 2009 19:21:56 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2855#comment-4991 What is “guru-pseudo monasticism?”

Can you give specific examples?

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By: Michael Bauman https://www.aoiusa.org/to-grow-a-hard-task/#comment-4953 Wed, 08 Jul 2009 14:51:56 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2855#comment-4953 Mr. Coin is right. The old saw that the American Orthodox are not mature enough to govern ourselves is simply that–an old saw used by tyrannts and cowards who refuse to take the Gospel mission of the Church in the United States seriously. Fortunately, we have quite a number of faithful who reject such betrayal of our Savior.

The OCA was blessed with being the first Orthodox body to begin to address the issue (perhaps that says more than anything else where the Holy Spirit is leading us). The AO
CA obviously is now facing similar issues. If our ‘General Assembly’ goes off as normal,i.e, a Met Philip extravaganza, the AOCA is dead. If +Basil comes out publically for change in leadership, we have a chance.

The various Slavic bodies have to decide whether they will go forward of backward. If they really want a podvig, what greater one could their be than plunging head long into the American morass. I question the tactic that Joe alludes to, remaining aloof to protect one’s own holiness.

Unless the GOA changes direction, they will be a millstone around the neck of the Church, getting all of the media attention while providing little real substance.

The Church will likely appear to grow smaller during this time, but she will grow stronger. I mean, who but a crazy person would choose to join such a dysfunctional group, or one called by the Holy Spirit?

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