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Comments on: The Stormy Petrel of the Cloth https://www.aoiusa.org/the-stormy-petrol-of-the-cloth/ A Research and Educational Organization that engages the cultural issues of the day within the Orthodox Christian Tradition Tue, 06 Apr 2010 23:50:54 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.3.3 By: Chrys https://www.aoiusa.org/the-stormy-petrol-of-the-cloth/#comment-10423 Tue, 06 Apr 2010 23:50:54 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=6263#comment-10423 In reply to Chrys.

George, you raise good points all. So you know, I didn’t see your post prior to posting my own comment (owing, no doubt, to the length of my comments). I read your initial comments with interest after submitting my own. At this point I can only agree with both the initial and subsequent points. While I deeply value the depth, treasures and living connections that those oversees relationships can provide, the administrative problems, diffused focus, and different political interests are all problematic, as you point out. The lack of good order (as noted in 3.1.1.) is simply a scandal.

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By: George Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/the-stormy-petrol-of-the-cloth/#comment-10420 Tue, 06 Apr 2010 20:34:07 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=6263#comment-10420 In reply to John Panos.

John, one way to do this would be to ordain more real monks as bishops. And let them continue to live in their monasteries, honoring their vows of poverty. You can’t threaten a true monk.

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By: George Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/the-stormy-petrol-of-the-cloth/#comment-10419 Tue, 06 Apr 2010 20:30:53 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=6263#comment-10419 In reply to George Michalopulos.

P.S. Chrys, the other point is that there was no bishop to protect Petrides. There was no bishop because Petrides pastored extra-canonical parishes set up in an archdiocese that belonged to the Russian Orthodox Church.

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By: George Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/the-stormy-petrol-of-the-cloth/#comment-10418 Tue, 06 Apr 2010 20:26:03 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=6263#comment-10418 In reply to Chrys.

Chrys, your point is well-taken. My point on the other hand is that the extra-canonical jurisdictions which implanted themselves solely through immigration suffered tremendously under this yoke. Not wanting to belabor the point, the idea that “evangelism” and “missionary activity” was taking place in America solely on the basis of priests being given antiminsions from a bishop 4,000 miles away when viewed in light of the reality on the ground, shows the illegitimacy of this argument. This story about Petrides is just one of many. The brings up yet another even more troubling question: for every Petrides who stood up for the faith, how many buckled?

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By: Fr. Johannes Jacobse https://www.aoiusa.org/the-stormy-petrol-of-the-cloth/#comment-10404 Tue, 06 Apr 2010 14:49:32 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=6263#comment-10404 Here’s the irony Chrys, and one that weak bishops don’t realize. When the Gospel is preached, the sick comforted, the youth instructed, and all the other mandates that constitute a healthy parish, the parish grows. The money necessary to run it follows with it. It’s fear that causes the acquiescence to men who use their wealth as a club.

Further, many of the good people in parishes with these problems don’t have the stomach for the conflict that any correction necessarily causes, and appropriately so. That job falls to the priest who, as you say, must have the backing of the bishop. Where bishops back their priests (and some do), the parish ends up healthier and flourishes. Where they don’t, the good parishioners are scandalized, usually by the mistreatment of the priest, and the parish flounders, often for a decade or more.

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By: Chrys https://www.aoiusa.org/the-stormy-petrol-of-the-cloth/#comment-10399 Tue, 06 Apr 2010 01:40:30 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=6263#comment-10399 A true pastor! Thanks for the link. It was inspiring to read of Fr. Petrides’ fidelity – especially given the cost he paid for it. The linked article, however, makes no comment about the Bishop; one can only wonder where he was in all of this. What the article does make clear is that the trustees of the church had the real power and authority.

As the article and the excellent doctoral dissertion of Fr. Nicholas Ferencz both make clear, our parishes were largely built by, paid for and ruled by a handful of influential parishioners. Add to that a long history of financial mismanagement by even well-intentioned leadership, and the result is our current situation: an oddly congregationalist polity that pretends to carry on a hierarchical tradition. And that’s the best case scenario. At worst, it means that the hierarchy is either irrelevant or compliant so that the church is effectively run by a few wealthy donors.

Unfortunately, this problem has not been resolved. The Big Money guys in each parish still know very well that the parish depends on their contributions and, without considerable formation, this will invariably lead to a host of spiritually undesirable consequences – for the donor, the parish and the message of the gospel in that area. This would be like the Apostles letting the wealthy Joseph of Arimathea dictate the shape of their mission. (Of course, such a group wouldn’t have commanded the noble Joseph of Arimathea’s loyalty. What does that tell you about the kind of people that certain practices attract and the kind of people you don’t? Priceless integrity appeals to those who would advance the mission of the Church and bring glory to God – and it would do so for generations.)

The present “deal” with the Big Money donors isn’t as fruitful as many seem to think. This story is a terrific object lesson. Here there was no counter-acting force, no hierarchical authority, to check and humble a wealthy layman who was apparently full of himself. What really came from this? It was more than a moment of “martyrdom” for a worthy priest. It is worth repeating: the acquiescence of the leadership is very dangerous for the wealthy malefactor (who was rewarded for this efforts and reinforced in his pride), the innocent parishioners (what awful lessons must they have taken from this?), the priest (who then knew he was on his own), and the spread of the gospel in the area (which presumably fell to other parishes . . . assuming they took up the calling). God regularly brings good from evil, but one could wish the Church offered fewer opportunities for Him to do so. As I have noted elsewhere, I expect that America’s eventual contribution to the Orthodox Church will come in the area of management and accountability.

To avoid the travesty that occurred in the parish in the article, it is essential to have an authority – a bishop – who can and will stand up for the faith, impose discipline and back up the priest. Whatever short-term loss they would suffer in financial support (and the cost would likely be meaningful), the long-term gain in spiritual vitality would more than make up for it.

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By: Geo Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/the-stormy-petrol-of-the-cloth/#comment-10398 Tue, 06 Apr 2010 01:32:07 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=6263#comment-10398 Now THIS was a priest! Going off on a tangent here, this story and the commentary attached to it, appears to settle the case once and for all whether the ethnic jurisdictions were canonical in any meaningful sense of the word. I particular have taken umbrage at the position that because they received antimins that they were “under the care” of Athens or C’pole. Clearly, what we are discovering is that the letter of the law was being followed (if that) and most definitely not the spirit.

Contrast this with the Russian diocese established here in America.

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By: John Panos https://www.aoiusa.org/the-stormy-petrol-of-the-cloth/#comment-10395 Mon, 05 Apr 2010 23:19:03 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=6263#comment-10395 I think the more things change, the more they remain the same. Many GOA parishes are not far from this – and for that matter, OCA and Antiochian parishes too.

God send us bold priests BACKED UP BY bishops with enough spine to stay out of their way.

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