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Comments on: The Manhattan Declaration: A Call of Christian Conscience https://www.aoiusa.org/the-manhattan-declaration-a-call-of-christian-conscience/ A Research and Educational Organization that engages the cultural issues of the day within the Orthodox Christian Tradition Thu, 26 Nov 2009 03:31:21 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.3.3 By: cynthia curran https://www.aoiusa.org/the-manhattan-declaration-a-call-of-christian-conscience/#comment-7590 Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:24:40 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=4694#comment-7590 Even the Evangelicals know that the Justinian code address abortion and child abandoment. But the orthodox which developed these laws centures ago are mainly until recently silent. And of course the general public sees this mainly as Evaneglicals and Roman Catholics getting in their way. But there is an old traditon at least in Eurpoean law on these issues.

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By: Fr. Gregory Jensen https://www.aoiusa.org/the-manhattan-declaration-a-call-of-christian-conscience/#comment-7585 Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:01:01 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=4694#comment-7585 For those interested (both of you! 😆 ) I have posted my blog some critical (though I hope appreciative) comments on the Manhattan Declaration. If you’re interested, please take a look here: http://palamas.info/?p=1161.

In Christ,

+FrG

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By: Michael Bauman https://www.aoiusa.org/the-manhattan-declaration-a-call-of-christian-conscience/#comment-7576 Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:41:40 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=4694#comment-7576 The only part of the declartion that is not traditional is the part on religious freedom. None of the signatories have ever been particularly strong on relgious freedom when they are in charge.

I mean, if we are right everybody else is wrong and endangering their souls. Hard to love enough to allow real freedom, because that means allowing folks to be wrong and taking the consequences for their decision. Worse still is the consequences for others because of wrong decisions (like legalizing abortion).

Freedom it a tough thing. I’m not sure freedom is clearly understood by most who use the term. Certainly, there is no common definition that is agreed to by all. One thing I am sure of, freedom does not mean that our decisions will be without negative consequence. If we are seeking and speaking the Truth, negative consequence is much more likely to occur than positive ones (at least in the world).

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By: The Manhattan Declaration: A Call of Christian Conscience | OrthodoxNet.com Blog | Blog Archive https://www.aoiusa.org/the-manhattan-declaration-a-call-of-christian-conscience/#comment-7569 Tue, 24 Nov 2009 06:40:34 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=4694#comment-7569 […] Manhattan Declaration: A Call of Christian Conscience American Orthodox Institute | by Fr. Johannes Jacobse | Nov. 22, 2009 At noon today a group of Orthodox, Catholic, and […]

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By: Michael Bauman https://www.aoiusa.org/the-manhattan-declaration-a-call-of-christian-conscience/#comment-7564 Mon, 23 Nov 2009 22:21:35 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=4694#comment-7564 In reply to Fr Gregory.

Given the content of several comments on the Manhattan Declartion by some Orthodox on other sites, the bishops having the guts to speak up at all, let alone with those dreaded ‘hetrodox’ is almost unthinkable. After all none of what they are speaking against has actually happened yet, so why bother.

Do we want comfort and our own self-will or do we want the Gospel?

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By: Fr Gregory https://www.aoiusa.org/the-manhattan-declaration-a-call-of-christian-conscience/#comment-7561 Mon, 23 Nov 2009 15:50:25 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=4694#comment-7561 In reply to Fr. Johannes Jacobse.

Let me second Fr Hans’ words. Preach Christ and people will seek you out–sometimes in anger to be sure, but mostly to find life.

The Manhattan Declaration is important not only for its content but also because of the shift it signals in the Orthodox Church in United States. We usually remained silent (think for example our absence from the debates during the Cold War era) when our voice was needed.

And Fr Hans makes a good point as well when he points out that we have largely been absent from meetings like the one that resulted in the Manhattan Declaration. We can afford to do this–we have to expand our witness and ministry beyond the parish.

To be sure, not everyone will take the path the Fr Hans has–but we cannot limit ourselves and our resources to the parish. Has anyone else noticed that we have become so parochial that for many even the diocese and the local bishop is seen as a threat? yes, there have been problems, but even these, I would argue, were in part because the vast majority of laity and clergy are focused almost exclusively on parish ministry. It just ain’t healthy to do this folks–and it isn’t fair to the parish to expect it to carry all the ministry of the Church.

What I’m getting at is this, we need ministries like AOI. We need to invest the resources–both financial and human–to reflect on issues such as those highlighted in the Manhattan Declaration.

So again, thank you Fr Hans & AOI and AMEN!

In Christ,

+FrG

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By: cynthia curran https://www.aoiusa.org/the-manhattan-declaration-a-call-of-christian-conscience/#comment-7554 Sun, 22 Nov 2009 23:47:51 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=4694#comment-7554 Well, the absent of Roman Catholics signing in the southwest is another thing notice in the signing. I think only one from Arizona. Bishop Roger Malony of Los Angeles is absent. Grantd,the West doesn’t have a strong orthodox present but because of the growing hispanic populations has larger Roman Catholic populations than the south. And the only signers in the West are evangelical protestants, and evangelicals are less presented in the West than the South.

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By: cynthia curran https://www.aoiusa.org/the-manhattan-declaration-a-call-of-christian-conscience/#comment-7550 Sun, 22 Nov 2009 02:57:10 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=4694#comment-7550 I agree about this not being the usual catholic-protestant right. Ron Sider, on the protestant left was a signer.

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By: Chris Banescu https://www.aoiusa.org/the-manhattan-declaration-a-call-of-christian-conscience/#comment-7548 Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:51:40 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=4694#comment-7548 In reply to Fr. Johannes Jacobse.

Fr. Hans,

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! Wonderfully stated!

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By: Fr. Johannes Jacobse https://www.aoiusa.org/the-manhattan-declaration-a-call-of-christian-conscience/#comment-7547 Sat, 21 Nov 2009 20:33:59 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=4694#comment-7547 The authors probably did not know. They have been waiting for an Orthodox voice in the public square for quite a while. Many are very respectful towards Orthodox Christianity because they know of the wealth within Orthodox Tradition. That is one major reason why they are waiting for us.

I attended the meeting last January that was the genesis of this document. It was not a political/religious gathering of any kind. About all that united us was a deep and abiding concern for the spiritual health of western culture. The attendees understood that our cultural problems far exceeded political solutions and would require a deep turning back to God.

I was told I was the first Orthodox priest ever to attend such an event and I am glad I went. I decided to go to see what other Christian leaders were saying about our cultural decline, but got instead many opportunities to deepen the anthropological and cultural dimensions of Christian teaching where appropriate. I don’t go to these events to make people Orthodox. I go to learn, as well as to explain the Gospel of Jesus Christ as it is understood and comprehended in our Orthodox Tradition if afforded the opportunity. I am respectful of the faith of others, especially knowing that our own house is in disorder and it is not our place to throw stones at their houses. That respect was returned. Frankly, I was surprised at the welcome I received and I am grateful for it.

I say this to Orthodox believers all the time but many don’t hear me: If we live in Christ, if Christ could actually be found in our parishes, people would be knocking on our doors trying to get in.

This Declaration is important for many reasons. One of those reasons is that it calls Christians to a deeper resistance to the dehumanizing thinking that is very real and very dangerous. It also calls us to resist these trends in our Churches and to support leaders like Met. Jonah and Bp. Basil (pray for them) who stand up for the truth. Further, we need to hold to account those leaders who are weak on the important sanctity of life issues and too quick to accommodate themselves to the dehumanizing cultural trends.

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By: Andrew https://www.aoiusa.org/the-manhattan-declaration-a-call-of-christian-conscience/#comment-7546 Sat, 21 Nov 2009 18:59:32 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=4694#comment-7546 I agree with George that the authors of the declaration knew exactly where the Orthodox Bishops are and who they are.

I would also like to remind AOI readers how the GOA -with the exception of Bishop Maximos- declined to have their names attached to the Amicus brief to the Supreme Court against abortion.

Campaigning for Hopenhagen is just fine for the EP/GOA but signing the manhattan declaration is not. This is tragic.

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By: George Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/the-manhattan-declaration-a-call-of-christian-conscience/#comment-7541 Sat, 21 Nov 2009 07:52:42 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=4694#comment-7541 Michael, I wouldn’t cut ’em that much slack. If you read the major newspapers, this has been in the works since Sept of this year. Believe me, I know in the very marrow of my being that they probably moved heaven and earth to get more Orthodox bishops involved. After all, Bishop Basil Essey is about 1500 mi away from the NY/DC corridor. If he found out about it, I can ASSURE you that at least someone on 79thst in NYC knew about it. But, they had more important things to do, like hire lawyers so they could start the process of getting Turkish citizenship.

p.s. bravo to Bishop Basil! (and of course to Metropolitan Jonah)

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By: George Patsourakos https://www.aoiusa.org/the-manhattan-declaration-a-call-of-christian-conscience/#comment-7540 Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:05:57 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=4694#comment-7540 I am thrilled that the Orthodox, Catholic, and Protestant faiths have joined together and agreed to scrutinize the federal government’s actions regarding abortion, same sex marriage, and religious freedom.

It is now time for America to live according to Christian teachings, rather than any secular lifestyle they want because they enjoy it.

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By: Michael Bauman https://www.aoiusa.org/the-manhattan-declaration-a-call-of-christian-conscience/#comment-7537 Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:31:17 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=4694#comment-7537 Dear to Christ:

We invite you to join with other Christians across the nation who support the sanctity of life, traditional marriage and religious liberty by endorsing the Manhattan Declaration.

Throughout the centuries, God has graciously provided His people with teachers and prophetic voices who apply His word to the critical issues of the day and who lead their hearers to embrace His life-giving authority and counsel in the midst of cultural madness. The Manhattan Declaration extends and honors that tradition, and we urge you to join us in affirming it. The Manhattan Declaration addresses with urgent eloquence the devaluation of human life, the corruption of marriage, and the erosion of religious liberty. With careful instruction, it brings light and clarity to all who read it. We trust that millions of believers will sign it, that countless others will be drawn or driven to give it fair consideration, and that our society will be changed by its strong yet sweetly reasonable message.

The Manhattan Declaration was released today, Friday – November 20, 2009, at a press conference in Washington D.C. It bears the signatures of many religious leaders, including myself, but this is just the beginning. The list of supports will grow dramatically in a short time and those who most need to hear this word will not be able to escape or downplay it. It has already grown ten-fold since its release at 12 noon (EST). So if, after carefully reading the document, you feel so moved, please endorse this document by your signature and spread the word to others who might endorse it as well. Thank you.

Click here to view the Manhattan Declaration and prayerfully consider lending your name to those who have already signed: http://www.ManhattanDeclaration.org.

+ B a s i l
Bishop of Wichita and the Diocese of Mid-America
Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America

+Basil sent this to all on his e-mail list. So all you Antiochians out there…..!!

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By: Michael Bauman https://www.aoiusa.org/the-manhattan-declaration-a-call-of-christian-conscience/#comment-7535 Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:18:52 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=4694#comment-7535 In reply to Fr. Peter.

Fr. Peter, it was released today at noon EST, that’s about 4 hours ago. If they were not all included in the original converstation that created the document, then I’d cut them some slack.

We can always ask our bishop to read and endorse the statement. Fortnately, mine already has. I sent him an e-mail to thank him for his leadership.

I have every reason to suspect there will be others who do sign. Unfortunately, I am also quite certain that not all will.

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