All I know for certain is that I don’t know enough about Islam to talk about the differences in our faiths.
[…]
For example, at least in the popular American religious imagination, Christianity is in fact about being a good person and taking the Bible literally.

Out there are many millions lapsed Christians to be brought back to the Church.
Fr.George Calciu:

The Protestants say: “I have my own relationship with God and have no need of a priest or the Church, I need no sacraments, and I speak directly with God Himself!”

I do not know how much they’re speaking directly with God…, but from what I have seen, they are conversing more with their earthly interests then with God.

Our Saviour will save you from certain trials (if you cry out to Him). He will reach out His hand and caught you, and say: “O man of little faith, why did you doubt?” (cf. Matthew 14, 31).

We often travel the waters of this life and the temptations are many. In this world so troubled by snares, by wars and horrors, and by all means that will lead to its End, who can really come to Christ by walking alone on the sea? Who can venture so hard to cry out at his last minute, for Jesus to stretch out His hand and save him? For our own good and our salvation, it is best to remain in the Church.

St.Seraphim of Sarov

And Holy Church prays that this may be granted us by the Lord God; and though troubles, misfortunes and various needs are inseparable from our life on earth, yet the Lord God neither willed nor wills that we should have nothing but troubles and adversities. Therefore, He commands us through the Apostles to bear one another’s burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ (Gal. 6:2). The Lord Jesus personally gives us the commandment to love one another, so that, by consoling one another with mutual love, we may lighten the sorrowful and narrow way of our journey to the heavenly country. Why did He descend to us from heaven, if not for the purpose of taking upon Himself our poverty and of making us rich with the riches of His goodness and His unutterable generosity? He did not come to be served by men but to serve them Himself and to give His life for the salvation of many. You do the same, your Godliness, and having seen the mercy of God manifestly shown to you, tell of it to all who desire salvation. The harvest truly is great, says the Lord, but the labourers are few (Lk. 10:2). The Lord God has led us out to work and has given us the gifts of His grace in order that, by reaping the ears of the salvation of our fellow-men and bringing as many as possible into the Kingdom of God, we may bring Him fruit—some thirty fold, some sixty fold and some a hundredfold. Let us be watchful, my son, in order that we may not be condemned with that wicked and slothful servant who hid his talent in the earth, but let us try to imitate those good and faithful servants of the Lord who brought their Master four talents instead of two, and ten instead of five (Cf. Mat. 25:14-30).

Eliot,

Thanks for the links–they look informative.

Without prejudice to the Holy Apostle Paul, my hope is that anyone who reaches out to Muslims have a solid grasp of Islam. We need to have Orthodox Christians who are well educated in Muslim thought, culture, history, spirituality, law, etc. While from our point of view converts from Islam are an obvious choice for this, I wonder if they fact that they have left Islam might be an obstacle to such a ministry. All I know for certain is that I don’t know enough about Islam to talk about the differences in our faiths.

Though he caught a great deal of flack for it, I think Pope Benedict XVI has made some good critiques of Islam in line with what you’ve said here about the use of human reason. To paraphrase, Benedict if we assume–as evidently Islam does–that divine revelation is verbal, inscribed and static (i.e., limited to the text of the Qu’ran) than there is no room for human reason in response to divine revelation.

Ironically, as I think we’ve seen this in the success of the Nation of Islam, if one’s understanding of Christian revelation is limited to the literal, static text of Scripture and if holiness is equated with moral rectitude, Islam seems an easy jump to make.

What I’m getting at is that at least from my perspective, Islam represents only the tip of the iceberg; I see in it the convergence of a number of pastoral challenges. For example, at least in the popular American religious imagination, Christianity is in fact about being a good person and taking the Bible literally. Some people, many even, think that this is a good thing but many more reject the Gospel because what they’ve been told is the Good News (some form of Evangelicalism or fundamentalism) ain’t actually the Gospel. Alas, in rejecting a deficient understanding they become closed to the catholic understanding.

So, as I think about the matter, I think St Nicholas and our witness to Islam needs to be part of a broader missionary effort here in America.

I think God stands at the door of our hearts knocking.

In Christ,

+FrG

Fr. Gregory:

I believe you want to use the strategy of St. Paul, the Apostle. When preaching in the Parthenon, he found a common ground, the “unknown God” that they worshiped. Then, he spoke mainly from the standpoint of reason, not from the standpoint of Divine Revelation. Reason was to lead them what Revelation teaches us.

I don’t have a solid knowledge of Islam and Islamic cultures. The converts from Islam are the ones having this knowledge.
http://www.answering-islam.org/index.html
http://www.answering-islam.org/Testimonies/index.html
http://www.answering-islam.org/Testimonies/hassan.html
(Please, notice the “comments on copyright, use and abuse of these testimonies”.)

From what I’ve read lately it seems to me that Islam mixes truth with false teachings. Obviously, sometimes their teachings seem unreasonable, but Muslims are not allowed to question their faith. Reasoning is forbidden.

The Qu’ran teaches that Christ will judge the world. So, He must be God.
http://www.thegrace.com/about.html

Arab prophet (El-Bukhari) confirmed this fact, saying: “The Last Hour will not come until the Son of Mary come down as the just Judge.”

We have put the Truth before them, and pray that the Lord our God will draw them to Him in His due time.

Eliot,

Thanks for your comment and question.

Like I said in the original post, I think we need to adopt a more consistent life of public prayer in our parishes in generally and at a rebuild St Nicholas Orthodox Church in particular.

We also need to train and support men and women who have solid, appreciative knowledge of Islam and Islamic cultures who can preach Christ and the Gospel to Muslims without being polemical or misrepresentation the other side of the debate.

I agree with you, with most men (Muslim or not!) celibacy is probably not the best place to begin–but we can still tell Muslims (and others) about Christ, His death on the Cross, His resurrection and the forgiveness of sins. None of this will work, however, if we are not personally and communally men and women of prayer. And, as you suggest above in your observation about Muslim women, if our witness reflects a lack of understanding of the situation faced by Muslims.

As a practical matter, especially at the beginning of my witness, I would hesitate as well to draw the parallel between the Islamic view of heaven and the Orthodox view of hell that you do above. That’s the kind of comparison that I think it’s better to build up to–ideally in response to the other person’s inquiry. If someone else can do this in a way that draws a person to Christ, thank God! but I don’t seem to have that gift.

Does all this make sense folks?

In Christ,

+FrG

I don’t think I would go to speak face-to-face to a Muslim man an tell him about monks who live in voluntary abstinence
The meaning of voluntary celibacy.

The meaning of voluntary celibacy is not a fight against gender, but a fight against sin that is present in our flesh. Chastity and abstinence from sexual life is not the purpose, but a means in this battle. In voluntary celibacy people look for the best way to overcome their passions. This task, which is valid for all people, is solved here by rejecting everything which is of this world, not because of spite for it, but because sin finds its easiest way into us through our flesh and the world.

I believe it would be of no use to try to reason with them. It is very unlikely that they will be attracted by the idea. Their idea of paradise is “a sensual peace and a sensual joy, with every man having 70 girls and boys and so on. It’s a fleshly joy, but they call it Spirit”.
In our Orthodox Christian understanding what they call paradise is actually the hell.

Hell is the absolute and infinite eruption of our passions, which can no longer be satisfied. This is the description of hell made by Saint Gregory the Great in his Dialogueues about death. Passions, although of spiritual origin, can be satisfied only by means of the body. After death, when body changes its properties, its spiritual side will keep the properties and habits of its lifetime. When entering eternity, passions will progress infinitely, so that even the slightest irritation will become rage and a guilty look will become an ocean of lust. But the body will not be capable to fulfill its desires. Suffering will arise from the turmoil of all the passions rushed upon the helplessness of the body. The existence of the body is necessary, both the sinners and the righteous will recover their bodies. The saints (as Saint Gregory says) to enjoy the perfect harmony which they were created for; the sinners – to die permanently and forever in body and soul.

I believe that Muslim women would be more receptive to Christianity. Anthony-the priest’s comment points out how women and children are being mistreated. I bet Muslim women are not looking forward to go to their ‘paradise’ either.
Yes, it is true that death came through Eve, but we have the new Eve, the Virgin Mary. Through her we received faith, and joy, and salvation.
Sharia Law: The Subjagation Of Women

Unfortunately for women in the west, the elitist mainstream media do not report on her books or personal experiences. This imposed ignorance by the elitist press in this country, may help insure that if not our daughters, then their daughters may be enslaved under Islamic Sharia law. If you think this is funny then you are a buffoon. Read the story below and open your eyes, for a clear perspective that is not being shared with you by the elitist press. Just my opinion….William McCullough

But Darwish developed a skeptical eye at an early age. She questioned her own Muslim culture and upbringing. She converted to Christianity after hearing a Christian preacher on television. In her latest book, Darwish warns about creeping sharia law – what it is, what it means, and how it is manifested in Islamic countries.

Eliot,

I see, thank you!

So do you think we should be more assertive in our evangelical approach to Muslims? Or do you think it would better if we each of us attended to our own hearts? Or maybe some combination of the two?

In Christ,

+FrG

Fr. Gregory:
IMO, the proposal to build a mosque is provocative, defiant, and it goes against all common sense. But, as I pointed out in an earlier comment, common sense is dead in America. My comments are meant to bring understanding on how we got in this seemingly absurd situation.

Eliot,

Thank you for your clarification.

I don’t doubt that with God all things are possible. Nor would I question the importance of confession. But I’m still not sure what, if anything, you are saying about my suggestion that we take a more assertive evangelical approach to Islam in America and specifically at Ground Zero.

So are you saying that we (a) should be more assertive, (b) we shouldn’t be more assertive, (c) it doesn’t matter as long as we pray and go to confession?

I’m not trying to be flip, I’m just trying to understand you. And here’s my struggle, most of what you have to say is true–but it is ALWAYS true that we need the grace of Confession and Holy Communion and to be obedient to God and not rely on our own will. If this is what your saying then, I guess, you are indifferent to what I argue for in the post. Again, that’s fine but not clear to me.

Why this matter, in the context of this thread anyway, is that I wrote the essay to invite conversation about Orthodox responses to the Cordoba Institute. Maybe from where you sit the response doesn’t matter but then again maybe it does matter to you.

I’m just confused. 🙁

In Christ,

+FrG

Oops … The situation we are in today is paradoxal.

Yes, your reading of my comments was correct.

St Antony told Abba Poemen that the great work humans could and should take up is “always to take the blame for [one’s] own sins before God and to expect temptation to [one’s] last breath”.

The situation we are in today is paradox. I believe it is the result of a long history of sin , not only against God, but ‘sins against common sense’. There is an English saying, “If God wants to punish a person, He deprives him of his reason.”
It seems as though we are walking in darkness, as though the light of reason in many of us had been extinguished. It is a scary punishment. Punishment is the wage of sin. The abolition of confession came from the Roman Catholics. It was embraced by Orthodox communities at one point. We have to allow God to work in ourselves. With God all things are possible. We are not supposed to sit back and abandon all efforts, neither to surrender to the spirit of self-reliance, the pride of doing things for ourselves.

Eliot, your response is better. But then, irritation toward others is simply the flip side of the same toward my own failings. This is because ultimately we are no different toward ourselves than we are toward others; the “posture,” the perspective, is the same. (What happens after that reaction – in both cases – is an internal “conversation” that seeks to correct the sin of judging in each cash, and a prayer asking forgiveness.)

As you say, it’s not how we start but how we finish that matters.

As for the other matter, perhaps I am obtuse. Was my reading of your comments correct or did I miss the mark?

I agree with what you have said above (#17.2.1.1.1) but how does this relate to the challenge the Church, and America, faces in the Cordoba Institute?

In Christ,

+FrG

I would not say that I get irritated. I prefer to think that I am the only one sinning. But is that true, since “we tend to sin almost as we breathe”? Since God is a consuming fire, communion taken unworthily will ‘burn’ us. Sin is what separates us from God. If we sin and do not confess, we are separated from God and unable to do His will. Many people had a good start, and today we see them “spiraling out of control”.

Eliot, I find that immensely irritating as well. I may be excessively scrupulous (which is indeed a failing), yet I am often irritated when I see people approach the Eucharist with the air of a casual afterthought. (This seems to happen most often at the Christmas and Pascha liturgies.) I take this to be, at least in part, the fault of us who claim it is of preeminent importance. Were we more faithful in our lives and witness, I strongly suspect that others would “draw near” with more care and attention.

All the same, I am not clear on how this applies to the previous conversation. Are you saying (as I read it) that the witness of those in the Church is hampered by the corruption of their unconfessed status? If so, then – following Fr. Gregory – our tendency to look to “Caesar” is an indictment of our own spiritual anemia.