Andrew, I don’t think the Helmsley is a luxury hotel. Still, I don’t have an issue with bishops meeting in better hotels because the better hotels are best equipped to handle meetings of this type. I’ve been to meetings of this kind and frankly, you never really leave the hotel so it has to be able to handle what you need if you want to make the most efficient use of your time. Basically you fly in, got to meetings, and fly out. Add a day flying in and a day flying out, and a three day meeting ends up being a week.

as far as spell-check, you’re on your own there! Steve, as I’ve indicated on another post, the EAs will only be successful when the love starts and the games stop. +Jonah is probably the central figure in this drama, and the OCA is certainly a thorn in the EP’s flesh, but that’s his problem, not ours. I think that fruit will be borne when the bishops assembled in the future demand that +Jonah be given his rightful place. In the meantime, I could care less. This land needs to be evangelized and the only church capable of doing this in an unfettered fashion is the local, canonical church. The American Church has no need to look for approval in the wistful eyes of foreign overlords. Preach the Gospel, that’s all that matters. The church that does that will be the one that America turns to.

I know that Archbishop Demetrios did a brave and nobel thing by inviting the OCA bishops and he will probably pay dearly for it.

My question really was not if the OCA biships were invited but did +Jonah get invited to sit on the executive committee as head of the second largest juristiction?

Met. Philip alluded to this in his speach.

This is what I mean by childish, asinine behavior on the part of the Patriarch of Constantinople.

Steve

P.S. Since I’m one of those lurkers and new to this, how do you do spell check?

Dean,
Thank you for the link. I love how this is worded:

Among the concelebrants were also representatives of Local Orthodox Churches to the Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia including ……. Archimandrite Zacchaeus (Orthodox Church in America), …

Is it possible that +Kyrill is senging a loud and clear message to Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople?

Me thinks Yes

Steve

Steve, respectfully, you are wrong. The OCA has always been canonical. Just because the EP and his hacks can’t stomach it means nothing. One of their sorrowful predecessors (Meletius IV) actively colloborated with the Bolsheviks to destroy the ROC when he recognized the Living Church. I take most of their pronouncements with a boulder of salt.

Andrew, when I reflect upon St Hilary’s words, I shudder to think how our bishops have been living sheltered lives for over a millenium now. It’s a wonder the Church still exists given such conditions. But exist it does, our Founder assured us of this. I guess you could say that the Church exists in spite of its mandarin/bishops rather than because of them.

Is it any wonder that that Church which suffered the most (Russia) is now viewed as the one with the most moral authority?

Today we fight an insidious persecutor, an enemy who flatters…. He does not stab us in the back but fills out stomachs. He does not seize our property and thereby give us life. He stuffs out pockets to lead us to death. He does not cast us into dungeons thereby setting us on the path to freedom. He imprisons us in the honors of the palace. He showers priests with honors, so that there will be no good bishops. He builds churches that he may destroy the faith. (From Against Emperor Constantius)

I want to thank Fr Andrew for the pictures he’s taking.

Trying to reply I found the fascinating instant translate function, wow! Alas, It doesn’t seem able to find the Russian or Bulgarian for “sheesh”. Really Fr. Andrew, everyone has addressed you respectfully, is it really necessary to go from dude to sheesh to calling people dogs, and then, O yes, exhorting to christian behavior. Again, wow! What makes you think that being present there gives you superior insight into editorial decisions of the goarch website? Or is that being decided openly during the meetings: “Dear brother concelebrants in the Lord, before we brake for Lunch, let us discuss in Fr. Andrew’s hearing what pics to put on my jurisdictions website”. One is tempted to a “whatever, dude.” No doubt you are positioned to have some special insights, but perhaps the bitter but real experiences give some others not as fortunate as yourself to be present there an insight (even if jaded) that maybe you do not possess.

But really, images and taxis are both important to Orthodox, and we Orthodox act on both. Official opinion in the Ecumenical Patriarchate towards the OCA ranges from marginalize to exclude. It is not really such a stretch to connect that opinion to the graphic representation of the marginalization and exclusion. On the OCA website we have a picture of OCA hierarchs with our Metropolitan. Will I be accused of conspiracy mongering acrobatics if I suggest that the bishops in that picture were not selected at random? I think it is Dean Calvert’s observation to compare the different coverages of Pat. Bartholomew’s visit to Moscow is instructive. Of course, there is a lot of overlap and many insignificant differences, but there are obvious significant differences, which naturally reflect the different positions, instincts and approaches of the Greeks and Russians.

And while I’m at it: I do not think that the bishops absolutely needed to labor under a “how will this sound on AFR?” dynamic that live coverage of every word would bring. But for two days of a supposed epoch change we have got four speeches and a group photo, with a smattering of other pictures, many/mostly provided by yourself, well again, thank you.

Fr. Yousuf

Dean, if I may add my 2c about the LA congress in 2002, I wss a delegate from my home parish in Oklahoma. Coincidentally, I was friends with the good folks at Orthodox.TV (all from Oklahoma). At that congress, the big talk was about autonomy for the GOA and there was palpable excitement in the air. Long story short, we were making several noises about autonomy but after about 2 days, one of the Orthodox.TV people told me: “George, we gotta keep a lid on this, I got from a very high source that something big is going to be announced at the end.” I asked: “what? Autonomy for the GOA?” My friend replied: “Yeah, they want us to keep it under wraps to maximize the excitement. So for the time being, we gotta keep a lid on things.” (He even told me the name of the man who told him this.)

As excited as I was to hear this, something in the pit of my stomach told me that my friends were being led down a primrose path. I didn’t want to break this guy’s heart so I played along with it. Fr Andrew, we were led down the primrose path and played for fools. I’m sorry, it’s just in the genetic makeup of these Byzantine hacks. They couldn’t tell the truth if it was staring them in the face.

To this day, your typical GOA priest will toe the party line on anything. (Not that I blame them, nobody wants to be transferred to some struggling parish in Podunk, Utah or Hicksville, Nebraska, fine places they may otherwise be.)

Forgive me for any offence but there’s every indication of Phanariote bad faith on display here. Admittedly, +Demetrios bucked the overlords in Istanbul by inviting the OCA but this proves the larger point. And I fear that in his doing so, he may have sealed his own fate. There is no way that the Phanar wants these EAs to be anything other than more of the same. They’re just not capable of doing what is right. But that’s ok, I think that the EA has taken on a life of its own and nothing will ever be the same. There is no way that the GOA is going to be able to control events again. Oh, they’ll try and heads may indeed roll, but the ground is shifting under our feet as we speak.

P.S. I’ll grant you that many of us consider +Jonah to be our favorite bishop,” but what of it? He’s a rookie bishop. The fact that he is speaks volumes about where we are presently. Why is he our “favorite bishop”? Maybe because the nature of his election and his character bespeaks of a moral authority that is missing in the other jurisdictions? If nothing else, it is a compelling narrative.

Page Two of the GOA playbook, Harry Coin could speak to this better than I, will be to publish photos AFTER the conference is all over…I wouldn’t be surprised if they setup an entire website to laud the accomplishments…they seem to like doing that lately.

The point is, this will all be done after a careful screening, orchestrated to the last detail to tell the story EXACTLY the way the GOA and the EP wants it told. Nothing more. There might even be a few pictures of the OCA bishops – but not in church!

And a lengthy statement will also certainly be issued…I can almost draft it for you here…

“We, the Orthodox bishops representing the Mother Churches of Orthodoxy, under the watchful eye and following the leadership of the First Throne of Constantinople, thank His Holiness for urging the convening of this conference to begin the arduous task of bringing the Orthodox Diaspora in America back into canonical order. We the children of the Mother Churches owe a debt of gratitude for the wisdom displayed…”

Now if you think I’ve gone around the bend…just go to these two sites…to see the different narratives that are being told about the EP’s visit to Russia:

1.) http://www.goarch.org/ which will lead you to the EP’s website, and

2.) http://www.mospat.ru/en/ – the Moscow patriarchate.

Oh, and when you visit, take particular notice of the verbiage used in the reports on the two sites. The GOARCH speaks consistently of His Holiness, Ecumenical Patriarch of C’nople…while the Moscow Patriarchate refers to him simply (but consistently) as Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople. A subtle, but interesting difference eh?

Looking at the first website, one would think that all of Russia stood still, while the EP exited the plane…an imperial visit of sorts. The second website, on the other hand, paints a very different picture.

My point is very simple….the GOA spin machine is going into high gear. Fr. Andrew is obviously part of the spin machine, whether he knows it or not. I know, I know…he’s AOCA – so what. There is a contingent of Antiochians so furious at Met. Philip that they will oppose everything the metropolitan does, even abandon the idea of a united and autocephalous church, perhaps even run into the arms of the EP as a result. Talk about going from the frying pan into the fire!

In any case, there’s no conspiracy being suggested…no one is saying we know where Hoffa is…

But then, Pravda and Izvestia had lots of pretty pictures too.

Personally, if the EA does anything short of reaffirming the Ligonier statements, and stating the need for a united and independent Orthodox Church on this continent…it will all have been a big, expensive charade.

Now let’s sit back and see what happens.

Best Regards,
Dean

Fr Andrew, if I may respectfully offer this opinion as to why these proceedings should have been broadcast: bishops are servants of the servants of God. That means they work for us. They are doing our work. What’s done is done, but we have a right to know what’s going on. otherwise expect more conspiracy talk.

You know, I am looking forward to the conspiracy theorists’ acrobatics when the official group photo gets published and everyone is featured in it. I’m having a hard time imagining how that will fit into the “the OCA was cut out of the photos on purpose” narrative, but no doubt y’all will think of something.

You asked several questions. Here are my answers:

1. I have no idea. The impression I get is that the organizers of this event want it as low-key as possible, including very little in the way of media. I don’t think there is any conspiracy to it or fear of “transparency,” just a desire to let things be mild and let the bishops get to work without turning it into a media “event.”

2. Why not wait and see what happens when everything gets published? Why assume the worst in every case?

3. Who is this “we”?

4. Yes, in America, we expect photographs of EVERYTHING, because that really helps us get things done. There’s nothing like paparazzi to help one settle down and focus on the work of God.

5. Ya got me. What *do* they have to fear?

6. Yes, why not?

7. (This is a bonus response.) Sheesh.

8. (This is another bonus.) Did anyone ever consider that perhaps your favorite bishop not being included in every photo might be an indication of just not thinking about it? It’s not only the OCA bishops who aren’t in those wide-angle shots. Can you spot ALL the Serbs in them? Me, neither. (CONSPIRACY!)

Folks, you need to calm down, stop the speculation, stop the “I know how they operate,” stop the assumptions that every little detail is evidence of some awful, evil conspiracy. For one thing, there’s honestly no evidence here on the ground that any of this cynicism is warranted. For another, this isn’t remotely over yet.

Why not begin at some point to assume the best rather than the worst? Why not wait and see what happens? Why assume that you know what you’re talking about when, quite frankly, you don’t?

(No doubt my suggestion that perhaps we might want to consider patience and—God forbid!—Christian behavior will be interpreted as evidence that I am a spy for the Phanar. Whee.)

Fr. Andrew, allow me to respectfully ask you a very simple question.
Is there any moral, canonical, spiritual reason not to broadcast the EA to the faithful from start to finish? Why not let America see how the bishops work for themselves? Why do we have to fear photographs of all things? Is this not America? What does any bishop of any jurisdiction have to fear freedom? Why not have the Church in America set an example of transparency for the rest of the Orthodox world.

The administration here at the EA is actively discouraging photos at various points. The fact that there are a lot of photos being published on Antiochian websites is mainly because I happen to be taking them. Bp. Mark seems to be using his cellphone to take photos.

You guys see a dark conspiracy in trivial junk. To be frank, though: You’re not here, and I have strong doubts from what I am seeing with my eyes that you know what you’re talking about.

At some point, all the cynicism becomes truly kynikos—like dogs barking.