Yes, in light of all available information, and given that the MP and ROCOR seem to be avoiding breaking with the Phanar, I’m seriously reconsidering ROCE and the Greek Old Calendarists. “Canonical Orthodoxy” has a finite time to right itself and cast out the heretics before it must be considered heterodox as well.
The clock is ticking.
]]>Misha,
Unfortunately, following recent behavior of Nun Vassa, who represents ROCOR, we can’t say this. Very disappointed that she is allowed to post what she has posted with regard to Metropolitan Ware’s recent statement on the subject, therefore siding with views expressed by him. Very sad.
]]>I have been where you are, Will P., and it is a dark place. You feel a burning in your heart to save the “poor (lost in their traditions) Orthodox”, but you only spew the “traditions” you learn from other men. There is zero Biblical evidence that the KJV is “the version” from God. There is, however, the fact that the Bible was written and compiled by the Church, but you have separated yourself from the Church and Church history. You aren’t even that connected to your own “Authorized KJV” that says, “52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever” John 6:52-58. The “traditions” of modern men say this is just allegorical, or an analogy…maybe metaphorical. You can’t even take your own Bible at face value because of the poisonous “traditions” you have swallowed.
]]>The controversy has entered the GOARCH and OCA, less so the AOCNA due to its Arab cultural context and not at all into the ROCOR as far as I can tell.
You will notice that the line is between Old Calendar churches and New Calendar churches. Between those who hold fast to Sacred Tradition and those who go to great pains to distinguish between “big T Tradition” and “little t tradition”. This is not a coincidence.
There is no refuge from the Feminist/Gay Borg except in the Sacred Tradition of the Orthodox Church as it has always been understood by all everywhere.
]]>Will P.
The Bible always has to be interpreted. All interpretation requires a context. Holy Tradition is that context outside of which no proper interpretation is possible. Outside Holy Tradition blasphemous ideas like PSA arise and destroy people’s faith and lives.
Anyone who claims to be Orthodox and denies the sinfulness of homoerotic activity is not following the dictates of the Bible or the unbroken Apostolic understanding of a Christian life handed down through and by the Church. If they do not repent they will become apostate.
You are either naive, ignorant or malicious if you really believe that Sola Scriptura is accurate and assures a vibrant Christian life. It is a man made matrix for interpretation of Scripture.
I am fed up with the arrogant assumptions that underlie such obnoxious preaching and moralizing.
Your point of view actually feeds the secularist agenda of egalitaianism: all opinions are equal. Therefore my reading of Scripture is as valid as anyone’s and my reading of Scripture says homerotic behavior is fine in a committed relationship. Yada, Yada, Yada.
Holy Tradition including the participation in the Sacraments allows the Holy Spirit to conform our hearts to the mind of God. Scripture then gushes life giving water and not legalistic nonesense.
Forgive my lack of an irenic approach but you are wrong. Your error contributes mightily to the problem. There is nothing in what you say that I can agree with. Silence means I consent. I do not consent.
If you want an irenic approach go to the blog Orthodox-Reformed Bridge.
There you have the possibility of beginning to learn instead of spouting mindless ideological platitudes.
Will, the KJV relied on not only Greek manuscripts but earlier English translations (like Tyndale’s) as well as St Jerome’s Latin Vulgate. I am far from being a Biblical scholar, and the history of Scripture is very complex and difficult to trace. It does seem, however, that there are discrepancies between the earliest Greek manuscripts of the New Testament (the Codex Sinaiticus) and the KJV. The story of the woman taken in adultery is one example (John 8:3-11). When did it enter the picture? It’s hard to say. It’s possible that it was added later by a scribe and then incorporated into the various Latin and/or Greek translations that the KJV later used.
In any rate, very few Christian scholars today insist go so far as to say that specific translations are also “without error”: instead, only the original manuscripts are infallible.
]]>Michael, Id have to agree. I dont think there’s anything morally problematic with competition if done in the right spirit. It’s good to be challemged both physically and mentally, whether it’s through tennis or golf or debate.
Some forms of competition necessarily involve degrading and humiliating one’s opponent, though, and I think boxing and the UFC would fit into that category.
]]>A friend of mine who has struggled with SSA in an Orthodox community says that men who seek sex with other men do so in order to fill their half empty glass. Unfortunately all that happens is the glass gets more empty.
Only in Christ can the glass be filled.
That is true for all of us except in a sacramental, chaste marriage Christ does the filling through one’s spouse.
Such marriage is not a right even less a blanket approval of all sexual intimacy. It requires ascesis and is likened by the Church to maryrdom.
Such ascesis as an integral part of the union is found in no other sexual coupling. Even in marriage sexual intercourse and other sexual intimacies can be selfish and based in passions not love.
Outside marriage selfishness is the norm. In same sex relationships selfishness reigns and can only be overcome through non-sexual friendship which is an intimacy of another kind.
]]>UFC is disgusting. It has nothing to do with masculinity. IMO it smacks of homeoerotic sado-masochism.
However men do engage each other in contests all the time. Challenging each other to be better and stronger.
Something no woman I have ever known gets is that men can physically and verbally fight with each other then when it is done go out and have a beer together in friendship.
]]>NF writes: “Men who struggle with SSA have at the heart a sense of masculine inferiority”.
Isn’t that a problem with heterosexual men, too, though? Why else would they enter sporting competitions that are often violent and result in serious injuries unless they needed to affirm their sense of manhood over and over again? Why would any sane man participate in something like the UFC unless he needed to prove something?
To me, the problem isn’t primarily the object of one’s sexual attractions. The issue is how one relates to other human beings. There are many heterosexual men who see women as dumpsters. Go to any college campus and ask how many young women have been taken advantage of at frat parties.
I guess I would prefer to see reparative therapy practitioners focus on their patients’ dysfunctional use of sex in general instead of trying to change one’s attractions. You’re not “fixing” a gay man if they become a womanizer who would rather pay for an abortion than raise their own offspring.
]]>I should add that it is considered “taboo” or “inappropriate” to ask the question, “Why do some people have homosexual desires/tendencies/inclinations?” You would think that the APA would be interested in this question, but they are not.
The “party line” is that people are “born this way,” though there is no evidence at all to support this. They “gay gene” theory from the 1990s (upon which many homosexual activists rested their hopes) fell apart, and there is no conclusive evidence at all of any “gay gene.” Yes, men and women can inherit certain temperaments from their biological parents, but a man with a reflective or sensitive temperament does not a homosexual make. You have to add the other factors (lack of affirmation of the male child in his masculinity, making the male child feel ashamed of his masculinity, lack of bonding with a salient (i.e., strong and benevolent) male figure in the male child’s life, etc.) to produce an adult man with homosexual desires.
Homosexuality is a gender identity disorder. A young boy must dissociate/detach from the mother and associate/bond with the father — “masculinity is an achievement.” It is hard to do, and we must nurture our young boys to become men. It doesn’t happen by magic. This “effort” required to produce a man probably explains why there are more male homosexuals than lesbians — young girls do not have to take this extra step in detaching from the mother and bonding with the father, as they form their gender identity.
But anyone who dares to ask the question “Why are some men homosexual” is laughed off the stage nowadays. It is considered rude to ask. However, the data are clear on why some men have SSA. Psychologists knew more about the roots of homosexuality in the 1930s than they admit to today. Morons on your favorite news show assume it is due to a “gay gene,” when that is ridiculous. Even studies of male identical twins — who have the same genetics! — show only about a 50% incidence of both the male twins acting out homosexually as adult men. If it were genetic, the value would be closer to 100%. And you cannot say it is due to societal pressures that homosexual men do not act out homosexually. Even in the most permissive of societies (Scandinavia and northern Europe, for example, where there is little if any societal pressure against homosexuality), these data stand.
It’s not genetic. The APA and the lavender mafia know this, but they do not want you to ask the question “why?,” and they refuse to put money or resources into researching further the causes of homosexuality. It undermines their cause of making it “normal.”
To be fair, for some men, the causes of their homosexuality (a father who beat them and showed them very little or no love, for example) are so painful to deal with that some men subconsciously feel that they are unable to even go there. It is simply easier to numb the pain by acting out sexually with other men, which unfortunately does nothing to heal the underlying problem. For these men, we must have compassion and help them get help.
Men in the church must stand up and help other men struggling with this issue. My experience is that many Orthodox pastors do not want to touch this issue with a 10-foot pole — they seem very afraid of it. That is a huge tragedy, but avoiding it is not an option. It must be addressed, especially as homosexuality is “normalized” in society and our children ask why does the Church “hate gay people.”
Pastors and Orthodox leaders must familiarize themselves with these root causes of homosexuality, educate their faithful, and be able to help men in their parish get help. For Heaven’s sake, these are the kind of conferences and symposia on homosexuality that Orthodox leaders should be sponsoring and attending — not ridiculous symposia in Amsterdam “to reflect on a wide range of matters concerning human sexuality.” Have we gone mad?
]]>We could Agree to disagree in a humble fashion, but everything I’ve listed is not to be disagreed over, and is not Opinion, but is based strictly from the Holy Bible.
]]>I hate to break it to you, but when we Reject Gods Word in the KING JAMES BIBLE, which is the Standard every Church should be living by, we Open the door for All kinds of problems and this problem of Homosexuality none of us could deny, was going to hit Home at one time or another, and here it is unfortunately.
Please do not feel the need to criticize the KJV BIBLE as it is the only book that has stayed the same, Gods Word is not to be revised, and while Newer King James versions have been made, this is nothing more than the work of the Devil who Devides and conquers.
The Roman Catholic Church has had widespread Outbreak of Homosexuality for years now, and unfortunately for her, she has her own Catechism , Own Bible, and which does not preach the Jesus of the Bible but teaches its own JESUS and it has been an institution which has Exalted Mary before Jesus Christ, a Real NO NO, when both the 1st and 2 no Commandment speak clearly not to Worship or have any Gods before Me and also mention in the 2nd Commandment that we are not to make any graven image, Not of Heaven above, nor of land or anything or anybody.
John 1:1 clearly states that 1st there was the Word, than the Word was with God and the Word was God.
If the Orthodox Church wants to believe itself the 1 True Church it must come to grips with the reality it is preaching another gospel as of current.
No True Church allows for Homosexuality to even be an issue and goes down fighting against it.
Orthodoxy will never be on the right side of God until it as an institution starts following the God of the Bible and who shed his blood ‘Once and for All’ at Calvary so man can be healed and redeemed through Jesus blood shed on the Cross.
There is No 1 Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and there never has been one. Catholic by its very definition means ‘Universal’ and is anyone going to refute the Bible when in in Matthew 7:14 it makes mention how the road to Christ is a Narrow road? Gods Church was never meant to be Universal.
When ACTS 4:12 makes mention of There being No other name that saves from under heaven, He was speaking about not just a person but religious institutions as well. Only Jesus Christ Blood on the Cross Saves, and which was done ‘Once’ not a trillion times over like Orthodoxy, Catholicism and even some Protestant Churches falsely proclaim and perform the Eucharist every Sunday and whenever Divine Liturgy is served.
Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism along countless other denominations are in direct violation with Ephesians 2:8-10 where an over amount of ‘Works Salvation’ are preached over that of Faith Alone. PERIOD!
Yes, our Work consist of Baptism and we are known by our Fruit and good works but Nothing, no kind of Works of our own, and no kind of Dogmas, Rituals, are going to save us, as we as Christians are at Gods great mercy. It is through his death on the Cross, we even have that chance at salvation.
The Titles Master, Rabbi, Father and Holy Father (see Pope) are Titles reserved strictly for GOD Only and that is to be respected and upheld as there is No mediator between God and man but Jesus Christ.
I must say it made me, and several other Orthodox Christians Sick to see for many years, how Orthodox clergy, including the Patriachs of the different diocese attending any form of Union or bond in Vatican City and both bowing and kissing the feet of the Pontiff, all 3 John Paul II, Ratzinger and now this Pope Francis.
Does 2 Corinthians 6:14 and 17 not warn against having anything to do with that which is wicked and unholy? Does it not say we’re not to be yoked and in any communion whatsoever with darkness?
Do we Love our brother? Yes!
However, Do we rebuke darkness and Wrong and heretical teachings? YES we do.
Religions, Tradition, denominations and people Do NOT Save. Sorry to break it to you folks, it’s the Plain and hard Truth.
I’m writing this out of discernment and Love and we need to Repent , acknowledge that these teachings of both Orthodoxy and that of Rome are WRONG and until they both Bag Tradition for the BIBLE, they will see more problems down the road.
The Orthodox Church just as Rome, has sadly conformed to the World.
1 John 2:15-17 teaches us that those whom Love the World and conform to her, and Love creation, that the Love of the Father is not in us.
GOD does Not bless a Wicked Nation nor does he bless Any form of wickedness.
We as his believers are already the True Church of Jesus Christ.
God bless and Amen!
]]>The Benedict Option was written by a lay person because the hierarchy and scholars are above all that don’t you know busy becoming tidy scholastics with worldly credentials and approval.
The Church is messy, always has been messy and always partaking of the Cross in someway.
Ronda, you are spot on. Men who abuse others are weak men. Men who cannot learn chastity are weak men. Men who denigrate women ate weak men. A Christian man must always be giving his life (literally at times) for the sake of others. Especially their wives and children. That is the way the “curse” given Adam is turned into a blessing.
Honestly loving other men is also a part of that. We are not meant to be the lonesome cowboy.
But there is nothing sexual about that love.
There is actually a pretty public display of what such love might look like(not perfect) on the Kansas City Royals baseball team. Two of their stars, with their own families are fast friends and display there affection for each other all over social media. Salvador Perez and Lorenzo Cain. They love each other.
When the men on the team play for each other, they win a lot of games their talent alone would not win. They won the World Series that way.
If we Christian men would do as well, a lot of the craziness would disapate.
Lord forgive me.
See Rod’s Ben Op – there is no “refuge”. Of course, this is itself a New Testament teaching (which is everywhere in it) but we have been a bit too comfortable as Christians in the west for too long to readily remember this truth…
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