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Comments on: [SCOBA] Message of the Episcopal Assembly Of the Canonical Orthodox Hierarchs of North and Central America May 26-28, 2010 https://www.aoiusa.org/scoba-message-of-the-episcopal-assembly-of-the-canonical-orthodox-hierarchs-of-north-and-central-america-may-26-28-2010/ A Research and Educational Organization that engages the cultural issues of the day within the Orthodox Christian Tradition Sat, 29 May 2010 14:37:37 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.3.3 By: George Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/scoba-message-of-the-episcopal-assembly-of-the-canonical-orthodox-hierarchs-of-north-and-central-america-may-26-28-2010/#comment-11793 Sat, 29 May 2010 14:37:37 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=6828#comment-11793 In reply to Fr. Johannes Jacobse.

You know, the only Protector that the Church has is the Holy Spirit. That’s the only one that we need. He may have been acting through this assembly to fortify these bishops to recognize His headship. If they’re open to it: watch out! If however they intend to play the same old SCOBA games, then we can’t reasonably expect anything more than Son of SCOBA. (Please note, I did not deride the canonicity of SCOBA, merely pointed out its overall fecklessness.)

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By: Fr. Johannes Jacobse https://www.aoiusa.org/scoba-message-of-the-episcopal-assembly-of-the-canonical-orthodox-hierarchs-of-north-and-central-america-may-26-28-2010/#comment-11783 Sat, 29 May 2010 12:13:10 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=6828#comment-11783 In reply to Harry Coin.

Harry, by the time the process is done, either the nascent creativity of the American Church will be unleashed, or, if under the grip of a protectorship, probably buried for good.

Will the EA’s make a difference? Actually, I’m optimistic about this — not the EA’s in particular, but in the emergence of the American identity that happens through them (like Ligonier).

I think too that it is becoming increasingly clear that protectorships are not viable.

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By: Harry Coin https://www.aoiusa.org/scoba-message-of-the-episcopal-assembly-of-the-canonical-orthodox-hierarchs-of-north-and-central-america-may-26-28-2010/#comment-11775 Sat, 29 May 2010 01:23:07 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=6828#comment-11775 In reply to Fr. Johannes Jacobse.

Fr. Hans,

Something must be said about comprehensibility to those considering our faith in your writing about ‘church protectorship’– the plain and evident sanity regarding who it is that is acting in ‘Protectorship’ of whom.

All the ‘EA’ appears to have done is to have the same people who met together on their own as SCOBA to meet now only subordinate to rules they had no part in creating.

By the time the ‘EA’ makes a difference noticable to those considering our faith, will enough be left in our faith to promote it without having to explain to seekers ‘please to carefully avoid to trip over the elephants in the room, and kindly avoid to mention them to us– if you join, you’ll get used to it. Please, give generously.’

Harry

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By: George Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/scoba-message-of-the-episcopal-assembly-of-the-canonical-orthodox-hierarchs-of-north-and-central-america-may-26-28-2010/#comment-11770 Sat, 29 May 2010 00:07:36 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=6828#comment-11770 In reply to Wesley J. Smith.

Wesley, yes, but several things have to happen in my opinion, the first is that the people of God in America want unity to happen. To be honest I didn’t think that we were there, but considering the collapse in the global economy (and Greece being put into receivership), I’m rather more optimistic. Also, negative trends play into this as well. At the just concluded EA, we find that the Greek and Antiochian bishops in Mexico didn’t want to part of North America (even though Central America is part of North America), and the Greek bishop in Toronto didn’t want to play nice either. This removes two irritants to American unity because all of a sudden, the US hierarchy looks all the more American (if only by default). This is going to make it hard to play ethnic one-upsmanship because we’re all Americans.

Also, let’s not forget the vanity of fallen men. Right now, the United States has 52+ canonical bishops (not titular ones), bishops of ordinary –if redundant–dioceses. With just these bishops alone, the US boasts the third largest episcopal college in the Orthodox world, right after Russia and Greece. This is a lot of clout in the international sphere. Eventually, this realization is going to sink in and simple, old-fashioned American cussedness will cause the American bishops to act in a more unified manner. Based on this alone, it’s possible that the American bishops will not wait until the fabulous Great and Holy Synod to convene to “normalize” the American situation. They may just do it on their own.

In such a scenario, I could easily see autocephaly being taken.

Of course, I can just as easily envision the Phanar being spooked by this image of unity and doing something hamfisted to disrupt it. The more I think about it, the more I’ve come to believe that the phyletistic/hegemonist narrative has been exploded. To be fair, we can’t expect the Phanar to be the only focus of discontent and disruption, I fear that there may be rumblings in some other jurisdictions as well. If disruption comes, it can come from anywhere. However, if the bishops keep their nerve, it could blow away. I don’t think any disruptions on the horizon are long-lived, especially if they’re based on ethnocentric concerns. We’ll see.

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By: Fr. Johannes Jacobse https://www.aoiusa.org/scoba-message-of-the-episcopal-assembly-of-the-canonical-orthodox-hierarchs-of-north-and-central-america-may-26-28-2010/#comment-11768 Fri, 28 May 2010 23:39:09 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=6828#comment-11768 Wesley, that’s the question of the hour (or in Orthodox terms perhaps, decade). As I see it, Orthodox unity will come about out of necessity, and although the bishops see the need (Ligonier in 1994 was the first concrete manifestation of that need on a hierarchical level), the barriers to it will just take time to overcome.

I think that is happening, so now the questions shifts (admittedly speculative) to how that unity might take shape. It could be autocephaly — the autocephaly of the OCA makes that a real possibility (it would not require centuries of wrangling to finally achieve it); or all the bishops agreeing to some kind of autonomy/self-rule under the protectorship of an Old World Patriarch — which is what Constantinople is wrangling for with the American Church.

So yes, the Episcopal Assemblies might be a step (in my view they are a second step, Ligonier was first) in the process of an emerging self-identity as an American Church; a necessary development for ecclesiastical independence. Others disagree of course and would prefer an autonomy under a foreign Patriarch (again, Constantinople seems very interested in the position). This will shake out in the next few years.

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By: Wesley J. Smith https://www.aoiusa.org/scoba-message-of-the-episcopal-assembly-of-the-canonical-orthodox-hierarchs-of-north-and-central-america-may-26-28-2010/#comment-11761 Fri, 28 May 2010 21:25:30 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=6828#comment-11761 In reply to Fr. Johannes Jacobse.

Now I know why it is called Byzantine!

So, does this seem to those who are knowledgeable in these matters, that if in good faith, this could be the first step leading toward an overarching American Church, into which the OCA, ROCOR, GOA (not holding my breath there, either), Antiochians,etc. could merge?

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By: Fr. Johannes Jacobse https://www.aoiusa.org/scoba-message-of-the-episcopal-assembly-of-the-canonical-orthodox-hierarchs-of-north-and-central-america-may-26-28-2010/#comment-11760 Fri, 28 May 2010 21:20:20 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=6828#comment-11760 In reply to Wesley J. Smith.

Can’t happen yet Wesley. To recognize the autocephaly of the OCA is also to recognize the Metropolitan of the OCA as Patriarch of America. That would necessitate at the least a cutting of ties with the Mother Churches, something just not feasible at this time.

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By: Steve https://www.aoiusa.org/scoba-message-of-the-episcopal-assembly-of-the-canonical-orthodox-hierarchs-of-north-and-central-america-may-26-28-2010/#comment-11759 Fri, 28 May 2010 21:12:40 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=6828#comment-11759 In reply to Wesley J. Smith.

Don’t hold your breath.

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By: Wesley J. Smith https://www.aoiusa.org/scoba-message-of-the-episcopal-assembly-of-the-canonical-orthodox-hierarchs-of-north-and-central-america-may-26-28-2010/#comment-11756 Fri, 28 May 2010 21:04:33 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=6828#comment-11756 Given this, and as a real show of good faith, isn’t this a perfect time for all jurisdictions to recognize the autocephaly of the OCA?

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