Comments on: Response to the Patriarchal Address

By: Chrys

Chrys — Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:03:43 +0000

In reply to Michael Bauman. Well said, Michael. Idolatry is pervasive and unavoidable in a life that has not given itself with ascetic disipline to the love of God.

By: Michael Bauman

Michael Bauman — Mon, 23 Nov 2009 03:58:19 +0000

George, yes and I’m afraid many of us are falling into that trap any time we replace the truth of the Church with the wisdom of the world.

By: George Michalopulos

George Michalopulos — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 07:59:10 +0000

In reply to Michael Bauman. Michael, isn't this a definition of "idolatry"?

By: Michael Bauman

Michael Bauman — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:34:24 +0000

In reply to Chrys.

We become blind to our own passions when God is ignored. The statists, without exception, ignore and blaspheme God by idolizing the state. That is one of the many things that makes the EP’s approach so troubling.

It is also one of the messages in the first chapter of Romans–“we love the created thing more than the creator”

By: Chrys

Chrys — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 01:21:45 +0000

In reply to Michael Bauman.

You are right: a great post. I found the following excerpt particularly apt.

Indeed, the Christian response is not a response to the actions of man: it is a response to the actions of God.

Dostoevsky’s answer to the Grand Inquisitor is not a better-honed argument – but a kiss – it is the lives of holy characters

That said, for all the injustice that an individual can inflict on another individual, I’d rather live with the “mess” of liberty than under the concentrated force of the Collective, where injustice can be inflicted on a truly grand scale. In this regard, in particular, the founding fathers were thoroughly Christian, recognizing the real and enduring problem of original sin (which power – to paraphrase Lord Acton – leverages).

As I see it, the “real” sin of the statists around the world is that they are so absorbed by their “noble” goals and good intentions that they are blind to their own passions. Were they aware of them, they would be very cautious about their own power, and doubly so about inordinate power in the hands of anyone else.

Father is right: the answer is not smarter and better policy, but holy people who do not react to men but rather respond to the will of God.

By: Michael Bauman

Michael Bauman — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 20:47:04 +0000

Another great post from Fr. Stephen Freeman on his blog: http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2009/11/17/in-the-shadow-of-the-grand-inquisitor/

An excerpt:

There are many modern forms of the Grand Inquisitor – or at least that for which the chapter stands. Our human lives are repeatedly tempted to take up certain “Christian” goals and implement them. Indeed, the increased organization and efficiency of modern man seems quite capable of eradicating hunger, abuse, neglect and the like. Strangely, the many efforts towards such worldly perfection (in the name of heavenly goods) has left history littered with failed schemes and occasionally vast amounts of carnage.

I have written repeatedly: Christ did not come into the world to make bad men good, but to make dead men live.

By: David Holford

David Holford — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 14:23:17 +0000

In reply to Theodoros. Just a point of legal clarification. There is no reason why an American bishop who took Turkish citizenship would have to give up his American citizenship. Neither Turkey nor the United States have such a requirement.

By: George Michalopulos

George Michalopulos — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 04:59:21 +0000

Cynthia, good historical analysis. We need to stop dissing the West because of their just war theory. There is no difference between a triggerman and the man who hires him. That includes the Crusades, which I think were just wars (for the most part), called by the pope to protect Christians in the Levant and to take back formerly Christian lands. The massacres attributed to them for the part are highly-exaggerated. They did nothing that was not in keeping with established military tradition.

Please understand, there were excesses, including the idea of warrior-priests and warrior-monks. And it was the idea of paying for the outfitting of knights by those who couldn’t go that we find the first instance of what would eventually become the sale of indulgences.

By: cynthia curran

cynthia curran — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 00:17:05 +0000

Well, this still off from what views modern orthodox should take on the war issue. But on another blog which is historical I stated that in the long run bribery didn’t always work for the Byzantines. Take all the payments that the emperors of the east gave to the Perisans, and still had to fight out and out wars in the early 7th century against them. Maybe, bribery will not work for the US or Western Europe either in the long term.

By: cynthia curran

cynthia curran — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 23:58:11 +0000

I agree with George, the Eastern Empire use Alans, and White Huns and Goths to do a lot of their military work mainly from the 4th to 6th centuries. In fact, Asper, the Alan was a very influencial general during both Theosdosius and Macrion reigns. In fact, Germans have served under Romans as far back as the early Empire. Remember Herman- his German name that defeated Varus. And I believe that many of them first entered in service after Marcus Aurelius defeated a early German people. Both Constantine and Theodosius used a lot of Goths in their military units. In fact, the West in particular had Germans that control Western Emperors because they had risen to the rank of generals. The Eastern Emperor Zeno made a deal with Theodoric the strong soldier and ruler of the Ostergoths to rid of Odovacer.

By: Michael Bauman

Michael Bauman — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 05:33:46 +0000

In reply to Joseph.

The Great Ektenia (the relevant petitions)

PRIEST: For the President of the United States and all civil authorities, and for our Armed forces everywhere, let us pray to the Lord.
PEOPLE: Lord, have mercy
PRIEST: That he will aid them and grant them victory over every enemy and adversary, let us pray to the Lord.

The Divine Liturgy in the Jordonville prayer book, omits most of these petiions entirely asking only for a blessing on the President and civil authorities.

I wonder what other differences exist?

By: Joseph

Joseph — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 20:02:26 +0000

PRIEST: Blessed is the kingdom of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto ages of ages.
PEOPLE: Amen.
PRIEST: In peace let us pray to the Lord.
PEOPLE: Lord, have mercy.
PRIEST: For the peace from above and for the salvation of our souls, let us pray to the Lord.
PEOPLE: Lord, have mercy.
PRIEST: For the peace of the whole world, for the welfare of the holy churches of God, and for the union of all, let us pray to the Lord.
PEOPLE: Lord, have mercy.
PRIEST: For this holy house and for those who enter with faith, reverence and the fear of God, let us pray to the Lord.
PEOPLE: Lord, have mercy.
PRIEST: For our Metropolitan, for our Bishop, for the honourable priesthood, for the diaconate in Christ, and for all the clergy and the people, let us pray to the Lord.
PEOPLE: Lord, have mercy.
PRIEST: For her Majesty our Queen, Elizabeth, for all civil authorities and for the armed forces, let us pray to the Lord.
PEOPLE: Lord, have mercy.
PRIEST: For this city, for every city and country, and for the faithful dwelling therein, let us pray to the Lord.
PEOPLE: Lord, have mercy.
PRIEST: For seasonable weather, for abundance of the fruits of the earth, and for peaceful times, let us pray to the Lord.
PEOPLE: Lord, have mercy.
PRIEST: For travelers by land, by sea and by air, for the sick and the suffering, for captives and their salvation, let us pray to the Lord.
PEOPLE: Lord, have mercy.
PRIEST: For our deliverance from all afflictions, danger, and necessity let us pray to the Lord.
PEOPLE: Lord, have mercy.
PRIEST: Help us, save us, have mercy on us, and keep us, O God, by Your grace.
PEOPLE: Lord, have mercy.
PRIEST: Commemorating our most holy, most pure, most blessed and glorious Lady, the Theotokos, and ever-virgin Mary, with all the Saints, let us commend ourselves and each other and all our life unto Christ our God.
PEOPLE: To You, O Lord.
PRIEST: O Lord, our God, Your power is incomparable; Your glory is incomprehensible,
Your mercy is immeasurable; Your love for man is inexpressible. Look down on us and on this holy house with pity, O Master, and impart the riches of Your mercy and Your compassion to us and to those who pray with us. For to You are due all glory, honour and worship to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto ages of ages.
PEOPLE: Amen.

By: Michael Bauman

Michael Bauman — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 19:34:59 +0000

In reply to Christopher. It is in the litany that comes after Blessed is the Kingdom. Excuse me for being so impercise--liturgics are not my strong point. I don't have the Service Book in front of my, but I have one at home and have frequently read in it during the Divine Liturgy. The petition is there. A similar petition in the Great Entrance is simply for all armed forces everywhere.

By: Christopher

Christopher — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 00:42:55 +0000

In reply to Michael Bauman.

Michael,

Is this wording in the in the great litany or the litany of fervent supplication (and not the antiphon)? – a priest friend of mine with the Antiochian service book (I don’t have it) says it is not there. Simply trying to confirm either way…

By: Joseph

Joseph — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:50:21 +0000

In reply to Christopher.

“…give victory over our enemies and adversaries” is the prayer in my church (OCA)
As well, we pray for Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, the Government, the Civil Service and the Armed Forces…