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Comments on: Report: Monks defrauding Greek state again https://www.aoiusa.org/report-monks-defrauding-greek-state-again/ A Research and Educational Organization that engages the cultural issues of the day within the Orthodox Christian Tradition Mon, 20 Jul 2009 23:26:28 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.3.3 By: Joe https://www.aoiusa.org/report-monks-defrauding-greek-state-again/#comment-5111 Mon, 20 Jul 2009 23:26:28 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2695#comment-5111 George, I’d like to believe that your latest non sequitur (something about Patriarch Kirill and Vatopedi?!) has something to do with the want of a new eyeglass prescription that you referred to in your previous non sequitur because that is a problem that can be easily fixed.

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By: George Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/report-monks-defrauding-greek-state-again/#comment-5100 Mon, 20 Jul 2009 02:13:45 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2695#comment-5100 Joe, please make sure that His Holiness +Kirill gets the memo. He seems to be mistaken if I read you correctly. I’m just sayin’…

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By: Joe https://www.aoiusa.org/report-monks-defrauding-greek-state-again/#comment-5098 Mon, 20 Jul 2009 00:05:36 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2695#comment-5098 It looks like God, through his servant Elder Joseph of Vatopedi, gets the last laugh – or least smile, on the unfaithful who have seized on the troubles of Vatopedi as an opportunity to strike at the monastics of the Holy Mountain.

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By: Joe https://www.aoiusa.org/report-monks-defrauding-greek-state-again/#comment-5094 Sun, 19 Jul 2009 21:03:25 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2695#comment-5094 Amazing!

How the smile of Elder Joseph is from eternity
http://www.impantokratoros.gr/387DDB11.en.aspx

The photograph of the reposed, smiling not only with his lips but with the full expression of his face, has greatly impressed the world as we see it from the articles and comments in many websites.

In fact one could meet people who just reposed with a bright face, or peaceful expression, or with deep restful repose but where is the smile?

On one side the spiritual fathers say that the hour of death is frightful for man, on the other side we read in “Gerontika” (Elder Literature) that even the most advanced in the spiritual life through humility they would not lose their courage before they passed on to the other life where there is no more danger. Moreover the elder Joseph suffered from his heart and was greatly tormented by the sickness, so how then did he repose smiling?

The answer is: NO, he did not repose smiling, but SMILED AFTER HIS REPOSE.

From discussions with some fathers of the monastery we bring you the facts of the event.

The two monks who were with him till the last moment, ran to inform Elder Ephraim and the rest of the fathers and did not pay attention to the reposed, who was indeed with his mouth partly open.

They therefore came to prepare him according to the monastic formality. Elder Ephraim ordered not to cover his face. The fathers tried to close his mouth, but it was too late, the mouth would stay open, in fact they tied gauze around to hold his mouth closed, but after they would remove it the mouth would reopen. Some forty five minutes had passed since his repose.

“Elder, it will look ugly this way with his mouth open, what should we do?”

“As he is, do not cover his face!”

They stitched the monastic mandya (cloak) as is the custom.

The whole process to put the mandya and stitch it, took some forty five minutes more. They then cut the material around his face, by order, and they found the elder like at last all see him, smiling.

Did he hear them and granted them this small favour, so that he may not sadden them? Or did he want to give us an idea of what he saw and the condition in which he is after his departure from the present life?

The smile of elder Joseph is the first supernatural event after his repose, and has become a great consolation to all of us.

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By: Joe https://www.aoiusa.org/report-monks-defrauding-greek-state-again/#comment-4879 Sat, 04 Jul 2009 03:41:22 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2695#comment-4879 Michael,

I’m 100% in agreement with you.

The Russian Orthodox Church Abroad baptizes and chrismates all converts (e.g. RCs and Prots). If they were married-in-the-world, then they get a beautiful Orthodox wedding afterwards. Of course there have been cases where the bishops exercise oikonomia, but by definition oikonomia is an exception, not the rule that it has become in many Orthodox parishes.

If someday in the future, the jurisdictional lines in America are erased, they will undoubtedly be replaced by other boundaries such as Church Calendar versus New Calendar, Traditionalist versus traditionalist, etc.

Resolving these differences will be much more difficult than the creation of adminstrative unity among the Orthdoox Churches in America.

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By: Michael Bauman https://www.aoiusa.org/report-monks-defrauding-greek-state-again/#comment-4877 Fri, 03 Jul 2009 23:28:37 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2695#comment-4877 Joe, I am a convert and an Antiochian (only Orthodox in town). If we are who we say we are (the one holy, catholic and apostolic church) shouldn’t we administer all the sacraments to converts from other traditions as if they have never been done before because, duh, they haven’t?

None of the sacraments of other communions and traditions are the same in form, intent or content–why should we pretend they are. “Accepting” other sacraments has always seemed to me a cowardly accomodation with the world. The other traditions are, at best, schismatic in nature.

Spiritually I think it would speed the transition from the former confession as well, less garbage lingering on.

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By: Joe https://www.aoiusa.org/report-monks-defrauding-greek-state-again/#comment-4870 Fri, 03 Jul 2009 21:48:57 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2695#comment-4870 Having re-watched Matthew Namee’s Myth of Past Unity presentation and revisited Fr. Oliver Herbel’s works in progress, I find myself in awe of the cleansing work that God is doing for the ecclesiology of the Orthodox Churches in America through this next (post-Schmemann), bright generation of young Orthodox Christian scholars.

The Russian Orthodox Church Abroad will soon be stepping forward to reclaim their inheritance as the descendants of St. Herman, St. Innocent and St. Tikhon, Patriarch of Russia and Enlightener of America (glorified by the ROCOR in 1981 and the MP in 1989).

And then we’ve got some more of those fruitful Pan-Orthodox Councils right around the corner.

The work of God in renewing our ecclesiology is proceeding apace!

We’ve got seminaries and Holy Trinity Jordanville may soon be switching to English, so our academic theological education is progressing.

Theology of the experiential kind (patristic asceticism and inner experience of grace) is proceeding nicely with the leavening presence of the truly Athonite monasteries established by Geronda Ephraim.

Next on the Orthodox Churches in America agenda should be a pan-jurisdictional discussion on the sacramental/mysteriological differences that are keeping the various jurisdictions apart, e.g. reception of converts and sacraments among other issues.

I’ll use just one example: marriage.

It is my understanding that though the Orthodox Christian marriage/crowning is available to convert couples in the OCA, this blessing is generally considered to be optional. The OCA (and the Antiochians?) have a tradition (their very own litttle “t”) that when a couple is received, their chrismation fills up not just their previous heterodox baptism, but their marriage vows as well! In the Greek Orthodox Church, if a convert couple does not get married in the Church after their reception, then they are considered “not in good standing” and are not allowed to received the Holy Mysteries (communion).

How to resolve these differences in a pan-Orthodox manner? Should the Greeks (and the Russians, etc.) just jettison this required blessing on their married converts and do things, or rather, don’t do things the OCA way (the least common denominator path) or should the OCA begin to bless the marriages of their couples so that they are eligible to receive the Holy Mysteries in parishes outside of the OCA?

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By: George Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/report-monks-defrauding-greek-state-again/#comment-4868 Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:51:47 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2695#comment-4868 Dean, Michael, you are right. “Judgment begins in the House of the Lord.” Let us pray that this same type of cleansing and repentance will occur in the GOA. I agree with Fr Mark Arey: “No one will be left behind. We’re all going to be united together.”

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By: Joe https://www.aoiusa.org/report-monks-defrauding-greek-state-again/#comment-4865 Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:21:14 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2695#comment-4865 “All-Good God, I beg you! You attracted me, you made me wear these cassocks, I beg you All-Good God! Don’t abandon me! Help! You called me and you brought me here and you gave me the keys of the Vatopedi Monastery. You, Yourself! The Son of the Living God! When I was begging Him to show me His will through Elder Porfyrios, He talked to me. Himself! God-Logos (Word)!

“He gave me the keys of Vatopedi. And, I used these keys to open Vatopedi and what you see now took place. God-Logos Himself came, His affectionate Mother came, His Mother, our Mother, our consolation, and She spiritually renewed Vatopedi. And She put us on the path of the terminοlogy of the Holy Fathers. I’m not denying anything.

She gave us the ability to write, to write with details the whole terminology of the Holy Fathers. Have consolation in the continuous future. All these, and I kindly invoke your love, your kindness, to accept them with humility and obedience, to continue your path with self-denial, and comprehensive assiduity. The first beginning is obedience, after obedience,the first beginning is the Jesus prayer, the unceasing Jesus prayer, that should never stop, after the unceasing Jesus prayer, humility and obedience come. After humility and obedience, the comprehensive assiduity comes. And then, the person learns how to resist to the various excuses of the false needs: to succumb to concupiscence and egoism.”

Elder Joseph of Vatopaidi

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By: Dean Calvert https://www.aoiusa.org/report-monks-defrauding-greek-state-again/#comment-4863 Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:04:04 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2695#comment-4863 Michael,

Re: Tom, the ultimate solution to the AOCA mess will actually lead to greater unity, one way or another. If Met. Philip “wins” then he will preside over a rapidly shrinking entity that will likely die when he does–just like all cults. If the Truth prevails, then Met Philip will either be a greatly chastened leader or retired.

Does anyone else get the feeling that “the church”, specifically the OCA and now the AOCA, is being cleansed? This reminds me of my readings of Isaiah…it’s almost as if we are being purified, for some future purpose.

I had honestly thought that all the way thru the OCA scandal..and had mentioned it to quite a few people. It was as if God was preparing us for something. Voila…we end up with an uncompromised, courageous, yet spiritual and humble metropolitan…seemingly out of nowhere.

Now, the same type of thing seems to be occurring in the AOCA. Who can predict the outcome? Will Met. Jonah’s overtures finally be accepted? Will the convert wing of the AOCA become disgusted with the shenanigans, and bolt to the OCA (along with some bishops)? Who knows.

I really get the feeling we are witnessing the Holy Spirit at work…it’s like watching God paint – breathtaking. I’m also reminded of something Archbishop Nathaniel has always told us at St. Andrew House – “It’s His church, and He will take care of it.”

In any case, Michael, I think you are right…either way this leads to greater unity. And for those who disagree with unity…my advice remains the same: “Leave the dead to bury their own.”

Best Regards,
Dean

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By: Michael Bauman https://www.aoiusa.org/report-monks-defrauding-greek-state-again/#comment-4861 Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:46:24 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2695#comment-4861 Tom, obviously, the mess in the AOCA right now is magnitudes worse than anything in the GOA. Obviously we have some house cleaning to do.

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By: ray blue https://www.aoiusa.org/report-monks-defrauding-greek-state-again/#comment-4860 Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:45:58 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2695#comment-4860 May God rest his soul in peace and among the saints !

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By: Joe https://www.aoiusa.org/report-monks-defrauding-greek-state-again/#comment-4856 Fri, 03 Jul 2009 02:59:35 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2695#comment-4856 Funeral of Blessed Elder Joseph of Vatopaidi: A Smile From Eternity

Report from: http://vatopaidi.wordpress.com/
Translated by: John Sanidopoulos

July 2, 2009

Yesterday at 6:00PM the farewell service for Blessed Elder Joseph of Vatopaidi took place in the Katholikon of the Sacred Monastery of Vatopaidi, and at 9:00PM was followed by refreshments in the Synodikon of the Monastery and Trapeza.

At the funeral there were 4 archbishops, 10 abbots, the Holy First Elder Symeon of Dionysiou with the Sacred Supervisors of the Holy Mountain, as well as dozens of priests and hundreds of faithful who upon hearing of the passing of the Blessed Elder came to the Monastery from many parts of Greece and Cyprus leaving behind any pending tasks or activities (one of whom was me).

Those who spoke at the funeral were the following in order: His Excellency Metropolitan of Limassol Athanasios; the Abbot of the Sacred Monastery of Vatopaidi Archimandrite Ephraim, who as a spiritual child of the Elder was especially moved and emphasized the great paternal love of the Elder having lived all these years and associated with the Elder. There followed His Eminence Metropolitan of Kastoria Seraphim who spoke of the Elder offering himself towards lay christians with his comforting and discerning words and letters, and further became a model of forgiveness and forbearance to those who wrongly criticized and slandered him. At the Synodikon the Abbot of the Sacred Monastery of Simonas Petras Archimandrite Elisaios emphasized that Elder Joseph was a point of reference for the Holy Mountain, who counseled with the desire for the monks to love God. Every meeting with the Elder was an experience.

Those who attended the funeral had the blessing to give the Elder a last embrace and to receive for the last time his blessing. However those who were there were not found to be with a cold relic, but gazed at a jovial, personable person as if he was giving them a smile from eternity. As for me, this was the first time in my life that I saw such an expression as if he was alive, though dead (you can see the face of the Elder in the photographs).

The entombment of the Elder did not take place at the cemetery of the Monastery, but in a place northeast of the Katholikon which he had prepared for himself a few years before.

All those present were confident of the Elder’s rest at the right hand of God. The emotions were mixed, sadness mixed with resurrection joy. May we have his blessing.

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By: Fr. Johannes Jacobse https://www.aoiusa.org/report-monks-defrauding-greek-state-again/#comment-4855 Fri, 03 Jul 2009 02:03:40 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2695#comment-4855 Tom, you dissemble. The point about integrity of the site was in response to your complaint about removal of a post that contained unsubstantiated charges against an individual. You said other posts were not removed that were guilty of the same thing. I asked for examples. You were unable to provide any.

You cry unfair about the criticisms of the Orthodoxy-Hellenism apologetic, but are unable to offer any arguments in defense of it. You ignore that this apologetic is the basis of a claim for jurisdictional hegemony over the American Orthodox Church and that no other Patriarch makes such an audacious claim.

You cry unfair about any criticism of the Mississippi River trip, while offering no commentary on the on convergence between global warming and Orthodox teaching that informs the pre-trip publicity.

Every jurisdiction has its problems. They will get settled. The problems in the AOA or OCA rise to the same level of problems in the GOA such as the lawsuits issue, but that issue is not discussed here either. They are largely internal.

If you can’t see the distinction between these internal problems and the larger witness of Orthodoxy — particularly how the Hellenism-Orthodoxy apologetic will impact an American Church if it is adopted, or how Orthodoxy will be perceived (and how it might develop) if a convergence between environmentalist ideology and the moral authority of Orthodox tradition is forged — then you should take your complaint elsewhere.

Not all ideas are equal. The ability to distinguish between them is a minimal requirement for discussion on this blog.

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By: Tom Kanelos https://www.aoiusa.org/report-monks-defrauding-greek-state-again/#comment-4854 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:19:25 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2695#comment-4854 The entire post #42 was intended as a respons to #38.

Sorry for the goof up

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