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Comments on: Remarks by Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew and Secretary of State Clinton https://www.aoiusa.org/remarks-by-ecumenical-patriarch-bartholomew-and-secretary-of-state-clinton/ A Research and Educational Organization that engages the cultural issues of the day within the Orthodox Christian Tradition Wed, 11 Nov 2009 20:27:19 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.3.3 By: Michael Bauman https://www.aoiusa.org/remarks-by-ecumenical-patriarch-bartholomew-and-secretary-of-state-clinton/#comment-7345 Wed, 11 Nov 2009 20:27:19 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=4434#comment-7345 In reply to Geo Michalopulos.

George, my bishop is a man of exceptional love devoted to the pastoral care of all. At the same time, he is unlikely to take any public lead role in opposistion to the current state of affaris in our Archdiocese.

The problem, of course, is not just Met. Philip but the manner in which all of us have enabled him and his inner circle to operate as they have for so long. Given his personality and experience, we put him in an untenable position that constantly reinforced the temptation to rule rather than serve. Now we are outraged that he succumbed to those temptation when we were perfectly happy to not have the responsibility?

The Local Synod is the body charged with assuring the accountablity of all the bishops. They are going to have to step-up as a body to be able to take any effective action. Unfortunately, they don’t appear to be united.

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By: Geo Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/remarks-by-ecumenical-patriarch-bartholomew-and-secretary-of-state-clinton/#comment-7289 Tue, 10 Nov 2009 00:16:43 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=4434#comment-7289 In reply to Michael Bauman.

Michael, your bishop is a saintly man. I think it is time for the Antiochian bishops in America to start behaving like a Holy Synod and right their ship. It’s not easy and it took the OCA three good years of agitation (thanks to Mark Stokoe) to do it, but we are much better off for it. You know what you need to do.

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By: Michael Bauman https://www.aoiusa.org/remarks-by-ecumenical-patriarch-bartholomew-and-secretary-of-state-clinton/#comment-7287 Mon, 09 Nov 2009 21:45:04 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=4434#comment-7287 In reply to George Michalopulos.

George, rarely am I called too gracious. However, you may be right. As much as our dhimmi past and present is a real handicap, my real point is that we must free ourselves from the politics of the moment and the past and speak simply and directly the truth. Just as Mother Teresa did.

My parish has a fine young man who has become so unhappy over our failure to speak up that instead of joining us for worship on Sunday, he pickets outside demanding that we speak the truth to power about Islam and abortion particularly.

Men are excommunicated for asking questions that challenge a bishop while those that threaten physical and spiritual harm to others, who are covicted felons are allowed free reign. Only those without connections and money are disciplined. What is happening, or largely not happening in the Antiochian Archdiocese is far worse that what the EP is doing.

Surely, we have our men and women who are holy, its just that our bishops seem to have forgotten. In the absence of an official structure that supports and encourages the quest for holiness, we must challenge each other and allow others to challenge us in love, humility and mutual forgiveness. That is the essence of community, not calcified, power distracted hierarchy.

Fr. Seraphim Rose said quite frequently that is was more important to take on the mind of the Fathers than to read them and be able to quote them.

Holiness takes work and suffering as Mother Teresa pointed out. Mostly, I’m not willing to pay the price. To be able to sacrifice my own self-will purely out of love of God is a daunting task, but it is one we are all charged with.

The Advent of our Lord in human form shattered every pre-conceived notion we humans might have about our nature and our destiny. If we settle for the normal; the safe; the academic and the political we are not serving Him who gave us His life.

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By: Andrew https://www.aoiusa.org/remarks-by-ecumenical-patriarch-bartholomew-and-secretary-of-state-clinton/#comment-7276 Sat, 07 Nov 2009 23:27:33 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=4434#comment-7276 How on earth can you justify calling Hillary Clinton Holy? Some cordial comments are in order when you are a guest of the state department no doubt but what speechwriter would allow what clearly appears to be the worship of politics and proximity to power to compromise a speech. This a clear sign that someone with a political axe to grind is shaping these texts.

You know, somebody should take the Holy comment by the EP and then juxtapose it on youtube with a video of Mrs. Clinton going nuts on abortion.

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By: George Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/remarks-by-ecumenical-patriarch-bartholomew-and-secretary-of-state-clinton/#comment-7270 Sat, 07 Nov 2009 05:14:44 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=4434#comment-7270 Michael, I see your point, but you’re being too gracious. Yes, there is a long and sordid tradition of Byzantine ecclesial servility to the state, but there is another equally long and glorious one of standing up to the state. We cut too much slack to hierarchs who behave this way. Instead we should just call the kettle black. There are two reasons for such behavior in my opinion:

1. lack of faith,
2. effeminate unctiousness

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By: Chris Banescu https://www.aoiusa.org/remarks-by-ecumenical-patriarch-bartholomew-and-secretary-of-state-clinton/#comment-7267 Sat, 07 Nov 2009 04:10:37 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=4434#comment-7267 In reply to Andrew.

Amazingly powerful and moving piece! THANK YOU Andrew for sharing that with us. I had never seen that before. Wow, wow, wow!

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By: Andrew https://www.aoiusa.org/remarks-by-ecumenical-patriarch-bartholomew-and-secretary-of-state-clinton/#comment-7264 Sat, 07 Nov 2009 01:47:10 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=4434#comment-7264 In reply to Fr. Johannes Jacobse.

Also, Be sure to check out the article that describes what happened

Peggy Noonan: Still Small Voice

http://www.peggynoonan.com/article.php?article=31

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By: Fr. Johannes Jacobse https://www.aoiusa.org/remarks-by-ecumenical-patriarch-bartholomew-and-secretary-of-state-clinton/#comment-7262 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 23:41:09 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=4434#comment-7262 In reply to Robert.

Read the speech here: National Prayer Breakfast Speech Against Abortion – 1994.

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By: Michael Bauman https://www.aoiusa.org/remarks-by-ecumenical-patriarch-bartholomew-and-secretary-of-state-clinton/#comment-7261 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 22:05:56 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=4434#comment-7261 That’s because the RCC gained freedom from the state in the Middle Ages, even ascendency over it while we were subjected to the dhimmi of Moslems and the Sergianism of the Soviets. On top of the attitude toward the state in imperial times and we have no foundation from which to speak to the state in anything other than a fawning manner.

In the United States particularly, we then loose all traction as the state is always right. There is the large disconnect between our ‘leaders’ and the reality of the polity (both politically and ecclesiologically) in the U.S.

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By: Robert https://www.aoiusa.org/remarks-by-ecumenical-patriarch-bartholomew-and-secretary-of-state-clinton/#comment-7255 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:21:37 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=4434#comment-7255 Remember mother Teresa visit to the Clintons? She blasted them for their support of abortion.

No such saltiness here. Sad.

Tickling ears.

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By: Andrew https://www.aoiusa.org/remarks-by-ecumenical-patriarch-bartholomew-and-secretary-of-state-clinton/#comment-7250 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 15:30:35 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=4434#comment-7250 When you consider the EP hoisted similar praise on Fidel Castro, the Clinton remarks do not seem that surprising. This is the new normal for the EP.

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