Fr, you answered the question for me as well. Besides, why would he want to move? He’s bought into the Erdogan program. Re the Greek bishops, if he came to America and set up shop, he’d be forced to confront all the non-Greek bishops. One of them could wind up replacing him as EP.

Won’t work Randy. It would interfere with the Hellenism agenda as promulgated by Constantinople.

A move to New York dilutes the notion that the office and person of the Ecumenical Patriarch is the historical bridge between classic and modern civilization which in turn justifies ethnic identity as the first criteria to claims of primacy. (Notice how only Greeks were “invited” to apply for Turkish citizenship — a questionable idea in itself, but also revealing in that other “ethnicities” need not apply.)

Leave Constantinople and the historical claim is weakened. As the claim to place (geography) disappears, authority is reduced to the person of the Patriarch, to historical memory actually, which is less compelling. Then people begin to be judged by their qualifications; the playing field gets leveled a bit as the ethnic claims lose their justification.

as usual Dean……………… you missed my point

It would be ungracious of me to say to all those who castigated those of us on the right side of this issue “I told you so.” Rather than say that, why we don’t we all just repent of the hurtful things that have been hurled to and fro (me especially) and just go back to the Bible and ordinary ecclesiastical orthopraxy? It ain’t that hard: just petition the Holy Synod of the American Church (the OCA) to join, take an inventory of all the bishops (about 60) and place each one in the 60 largest North American cities. Now you got a real holy synod of 60 bishops and we can start evangelizing and start locating a couple of dozen other cities for possible dioceses in the future.

It should be easy. After all, bishops are monks and monks take vows of poverty. Of course, this would mean that the GOA “metropolitans” would have to give up their six-figure salaries.

Isa, Nick, et.al., I repeat: we CANNOT turn over ANYTHING to the likes of Arey. I’m not talking just about real estate here, I mean pension funds, bank accounts, even office furniture, pencils and paper clips. The EP will find some way to “byzntinize” them by bringing out some obscure canon from a regional council nobody ever heard about. Ever since the passing of Patriarch Demetrius in 1991, we have not been dealing in good faith with ANYBODY at the Phanar. I’m sorry to say that. I’ll even go further: except for 2-3 GOA bishops here, none of them are interested in negotiating in good faith either.

Unfortunately, the only way to go forward is to create a real episcopal assembly under the chairmanship of +Jonah, let those who don’t want to be under this one join the GOA and then just let time take its course. Eventually, the Phanar will do something egregious that will finally break the camel’s back. Until then, evangelically-minded GOA laymen will start migrating out to the other jurisdictions. (Although not the Antiochian at present, I guess that leaves the OCA or ROCOR.)

I don’t say this with any glee, but realism.

Jolynn,

Re: What’s everyone freaking out about. Givem him the monasteries. Makes perfect sense from every angle.

I think what people are “freaking out about” is that this is EXACTLY what OCL warned was coming a few years back when we were debating the imposition of the new charter.

Of course, at the time, Tom Kanelos and you assured us that we were crazy, and that it would never ever happen.

Now you are suggesting giving them the monasteries?

What’s next…the cathedrals in each metropolis?

To be honest, I can almost understand and sympathize with the request – and, on a good day, might be talked into believing that it might do the EP some good.

What I can’t believe is the incredible stupidity behind the request, and the complete lack of appreciation for how this would play in the PR world.

It all adds up to what I’ve been told over and over again about the EP…they are a bunch of bishops with little else to do but sit around the table and concoct fantastic schemes….actually talking themselves into them in the process. And that they have, for the most part, absolutely no conception of what the American mindset is like.

All of which makes it sooooo dangerous that all of your bishops in the GOA are elected over there…with absolutely no election occurring on these shores.

Best of luck talking them into giving the monasteries though….

Dean

Dean: That was a good one.

Nick,

Re: By the way, how do you spell Robespierre in Greek? May be one will arise.

O….C…..L

LOL

Best Regards
Dean

George & Isa: I understand and share many of your feelings. However, it should not go without notice that the EP did not order this to be done but merely asked (albeit with a caution to remember who elevated them to metropolitans). That indicates to me that he has some apprehension and recognizes to some degree the tenuousness of his base of support among rank and file Faithful. I really see this as a watershed point for the GOA if the metropolitans give in especially if they order a parish to convey its property. By the way, how do you spell Robespierre in Greek? May be one will arise.

Even their mouthpieces here in America are no better. I remember listening to Fr Arey’s “interview” in which he said that the Ukrainians haven’t had autocephaly since their church was founded. What balderdash, they had autocephaly for 500 years, from 1489 to 1921, when they were part of the Russian polity.

The best thing to do is ignore the upcoming Episcopal Assembly. If they want non-GOA bishops to attend, then these bishops should send a letter to 79th St asking for clarification on certain issues. Under NO circumstances should the other jurisdictions turn over ANYTHING at all to Arey and his bunch, it will go down a rat hole so quick you’ll never even know it existed in the first place.