Comments on: Patriarch Kirill & Pope Benedict: A Tale of Two Leaders for a new Missionary Age

By: George Michalopulos

George Michalopulos — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:42:59 +0000

Anil, thank you for the input. I fear that such examples are extremely rare. I hope to be proven wrong.

By: Anil Wang

Anil Wang — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 20:11:18 +0000

In reply to George Michalopulos.

George, I don’t know about Chicago, but Toronto has what you’re talking about:
http://www.stjohnsmission.org/

Unfortunately, it’s the only one I know of its kind in the City.

By: George Michalopulos

George Michalopulos — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:06:22 +0000

Cynthia, I understand where you’re coming from. My point is that it’s not just raw numbers alone that matter, but the wise use of what resources we do have. For instance, how expensive would it be to run a soup kitchen at the whatever Orthodox parish is closest to the local skid row? (Assuming that that parish had a parish hall w/ full kitchen.) Now let’s say that there are four other Orthodox parishes in the same greater metro area. Now let’s say that these other four are suburban and more middle-class, with an annual budget of approx $200,000. What if they each created a line-item in their budget of 10% for local philanthropy. That’s $20K per parish. $20K x 4 parishes = $80K per year. That’s more than enough to operate a soup kitchen (with volunteer labor).

In the meantime, that same inner-city parish could operate a thrift store, collecting throughout the year clean, used clothing that the suburban parishes’ youth groups/ladies’ auxiliaries/etc. gatherered. This could generate income in that these cast-offs could be sold for pennies on the dollar.

The above are simple, not-too-capital-intensive things that Orthodox parishes throughout the US could do. I think it would be a blessing to all involved. And before you know it, each of the tithing parishes would be flourishing. Just a thought.

By: cynthia curran

cynthia curran — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 23:39:53 +0000

Well, I don’t know why Chicago doesn’t have orthodox charities but San Diego is pretty obvious- in the west, most areas eastern orthodox are only.6 percent of the population. In a higher than average immirgant metro area of 3 million like San Diego muslims even outnumber Orthodox. The biggest christian groups in San Diego are Roman Catholics, above average hispanic population and evangelical protestism among those that attend church. San Diego like a lot of metro areas in the west has below average church attended.

By: cynthia curran

cynthia curran — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 23:23:39 +0000

George, I think why you have more disagreements with other orthodox is that you are free market and more into limit government which to some orthodox is incorrect because those views developed in the west;and therefore any ideas from the west are incorrect. Theology and politcs are not the same thing but some people can’t seperate them.

By: cynthia curran

cynthia curran — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 21:41:50 +0000

she was influened by the monophysites

By: cynthia curran

cynthia curran — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 21:36:14 +0000

but orthodox contribute to him things he was not responsible for i mean.

By: cynthia curran

cynthia curran — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 21:27:49 +0000

Constantine is defintely a figure that caused chrisians to deal with the world after making it legal and encouraging religous tolerant compared to what happen before and after his time. Constantine gradually moved toward christianity in his life. His vision or dream may or may not be true. He did exile Athansius and his son was an Arian. Also, Justinian and Theodora are also saints, two other saints that are questionable. Theodora rejected the council of Chaldecon. And even Orthodox Wiki admits in her earlier years that she was influenced the monophysites. The empire may have driven the Romn Catholic Popes to the Franks by humilating them in the 7th century, two byzantine emperors had the popes thrown into prison and charging high taxes on church property in Italy.
As for Calvin, he may have been responsible for making christianity secular but Orthodox contribute him to things he is responsible for. I believe that he only had one person Michael Severus put to death for hersay and according to Paul Johnson he used the Justinian Law code to do this. So, he used a law code developed from the Byzantines and anicent Romans not from Reformation Protestantism. Also,while he stated that it was ok to have lend at interest, he believed in regulating interest and sometimes wages and prices. He was not a great believer in the free market.

By: Greg

Greg — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 20:24:54 +0000

In reply to George Michalopulos. I didn't see that one in particular, but apparently that scene from Der Untergang has been used to spoof(?), parody(?) a lot of issues.

By: Greg

Greg — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 20:20:07 +0000

In reply to Fr. Johannes Jacobse. Thanks for the rejoinder.

By: George Michalopulos

George Michalopulos — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 09:35:29 +0000

In reply to Greg. Did you all see the one in which Der Furher finds out that Scott Brown won the Senate seat in Mass? Hilarious.

By: George Michalopulos

George Michalopulos — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 09:29:41 +0000

In reply to Eliot Ryan. Eliot, that's excellent advice. Now that you mention it, I've found that with my hetereodox friends, I don't have to discuss religion. They're good people because of their own devotion to Christ. As a rule, those that are interested in Orthodoxy do so when they don't see me acting like a sinner and/or hypocrite. What's sad is that almost all heated discussions take place with fellow Orthodox. does anybody else have this same experience?

By: Eliot Ryan

Eliot Ryan — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 05:15:29 +0000

In reply to George Michalopulos.

It is true that many of us have already “fallen away”. We can say that too many of us are only formally members of the Body of Christ, and only a small part are inwardly Orthodox.

Faith can’t be understood by our fallen human reason or intellect. I am the first sinner, I have little faith. What strengthens my faith is the true, real, deep faith of the Martyrs, Confessors and Fathers. I know they purified their hearts through ascetic practices of prayer, fasting, struggling against sin, and the sacraments.

Standing up for the truth ultimately means love for others. We must proclaimed the truth of the Holy Orthodox Church – the means by which men are saved. If I don’t believe this, I am merely a formal Orthodox.

Personal sin is not the same as heresy. Heresy is personal sin preached to others. When you encounter it you have to cut yourselves off, for fear of being contaminated. I have heterodox friends but I make it clear: I do not want to discuss religion with you anymore. I concluded that it is a waste of time. They trust too much their own (fallen) reasoning. I love them and I pray for them.

By: George Michalopulos

George Michalopulos — Sat, 13 Feb 2010 04:06:09 +0000

In reply to Eliot Ryan.

Eliot, I agree in the main with what you’re saying. What I’m saying however is that I’m not so sure that many non-Orthodox are actually “falling away from the Fathers.” I fear that perhaps (and I’m very guarded about this as I could be wrong/hope I’m wrong) is that too many of us have already “fallen away.”

I know this may seem a contradiction: how can some heterodox be acused of being more faithful to the Fathers than we who are right-believing, but as I’ve stated for various reasons, it appears that this may indeed be the case. What gives me hope is your pointing out that we have “protection of the New Martyrs…Divine inspiration and assistance,” etc.

By: Fr. Johannes Jacobse

Fr. Johannes Jacobse — Sat, 13 Feb 2010 03:36:21 +0000

In reply to Michael Bauman.

Here’s my take. The father of modern secularism is John Calvin — if you define secularism as blindness to the divine dimension of creation. Calvin effectively rationalized Christianity, that is, robbed it of it’s sacramental character. The pagans saw this divine dimension although the struggle then was comprehending correctly what this divine dimension actually was. Now we deny it exists.

Having said that, I think secularism is just a layover, like sitting in Charlotte for a grueling two hours waiting for the connection to Pittsburgh. Secularism is just too hard a cross to bear and I doubt that any society who adopts it can bear it for even one generation. That society must turn to some kind of religion just for relief. What religion it turns to is the real question we should be asking.

On another note, yes, your point about Constantine is correct. The pagans were not blind to the divine dimension of creation at all. However, they would not know of the God above all gods — the God of the man Abraham — until the Gospel that reveals the God above all gods was preached.

Then Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, “Men of Athens, I perceive that in all things you are very religious; for as I was passing through and considering the objects of your worship, I even found an altar with this inscription:

TO THE UNKNOWN GOD.

Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you…(Acts 17:21-23)

Secularism can’t really be defined in terms of the relationship of state to church. Rather, it is a state of mind, a way of thinking, and thus seeing. It affects culture though, and that effects people’s expectations of the state.