Yes, it has been my contention all along that Moscow is giving Constantinople just enough canon 28 rope to hang itself. Hence the understatement which gets its message across clear enough.

I thought that entire paragraph, mentioned above by Isa was absolutely “loaded” if you ask me. Here’s the paragraph, along with my interpretation:

“For the sake of church peace we agreed to have the bishops’ assemblies chaired in accordance with diptychs. [However ridiculous is might seem, we are allowing C’nople to chair these regional meetings] However, the powers of the chairmen and the bishops’ assemblies themselves were defined very clearly.[i.e. there is a limit to our patience – ‘chairing’ means just that, we all know where this is going – so let’s get started] As we insisted [interesting choice of words], all their decisions will be made only by consensus. [the chairing of assemblies is a temporary thing – the assemblies will be organizing themselves in short order] Canonical relations of bishops with their own Primates and Synods are not challenged, nor are the powers exercised by bishops in the diaspora diminished. [this one is interesting – a statement that ‘bishops are bishops’- implying to me the power which will ultimately reside in the assembly of bishops, not in a SCOBA type executive committee]. Thus, our bishops in the diaspora will be able to make an active influence on the decision-making process in bishops’ assemblies [in other words, we will be monitoring events closely – read: C’nople – this is your last chance].”

Please forgive my cynicism – but, as you know, I grew up in the GOA.

Best Regards

To my mind, that means all existing decisions and relationships will remain intact. Plus, I agree with Dean, +Jonah has garnered tremendous moral authority in North America since his election. Sad to say, but +Philip and +Demetrius have seen considerable erosion in their’s.

Ben,

While it may appear that way…with the Moscow patriarchate squarely in the driver’s seat, I sincerely doubt the status of the OCA is likely to change.

Furthermore, anyone thinking the OCA is going to slip quietly under the water, abandoning it’s autocephaly without getting anything in exchange (like a united American Church) has severely underestimated the new metropolitan.

Just my opinion.

Best Regards,
dean

Interesting take on the GOA laity laying down the hammer on the Phanar. I see your point, that they’re acting like a “living church.” I wonder though, are they aware of this? I have a reticence based on the fact that the EP and the GOA/Archons prop each other up for PR purposes: The EP/Phanar needs the GOA/Archons for money and political influence, the GOA/Archons rely on the EP/Phanar for nostalgia. Clearly, no exarchate in America needs Istanbul for legitimacy, question is: do they see it?

Yep…I zeroed in on that exact same paragraph. He might as well have said, “this is the way it’s going to be done, whether or not C’nople likes it.”

For some reason, this statement struck me as definitive – but the entire tone of this statement struck me as “no longer ridiculously deferential”. To be honest, your words from a couple days ago are ringing in my ears.

This are clearly changing…perhaps the reason the Preparatory Talks have gone into warp speed is the election of a new Russian patriarch, who is no longer willing to sit around and wait for the Patriarchs of the dead sees to get their acts together.

One thing is for sure…we are witnessing history.

I continue to believe that the gap between the “dead” churches and the “live” churches will continue to grow – but, as you suggest, with the “live” churches increasingly running the show, either overtly or from behind the scenes.

It’s interesting…even the recent demand of the Exec. Committee of the Archdiocese Council (that the metropolitan of Iconium be sanctioned) could be placed in the same category…i.e., the “live” churches no longer bowing to the “dead” ones.

Yep…we are witnessing history unfold – a realignment of world Orthodoxy.

All I can say is, “about time”.

Best Regards,
Dean

PS Anybody know when the last liturgy was served in Iconium, the See of this guy with the nerve to criticize the Archbishop of America? According to Wikipedia, the city was conquered by the Seljuks following the battle of Manzikert in 1071. And according to the 1895 census, the city contained 899 Greeks.

So no, C’ple doesn’t have veto power, no, the Mother Churches are not going to have the power to broker a deal (like the recent C’ple-Jerusalem fiasco in North America) and force it on the “diaspora,” no, Chambesy didn’t validate Met/Archb/EP/Pope Meletius’ interpretation of canon 28.

Yeah, the MP is in the engineers seat, although EP is allowed to play conductor.