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Comments on: Orthodox Natural Law Theory https://www.aoiusa.org/orthodox-natural-law-theory/ A Research and Educational Organization that engages the cultural issues of the day within the Orthodox Christian Tradition Thu, 25 Feb 2010 23:35:44 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.3.3 By: Fr. Gregory Jensen https://www.aoiusa.org/orthodox-natural-law-theory/#comment-9164 Thu, 25 Feb 2010 23:35:44 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=5860#comment-9164 FYI,

I corrected some a VERY MISLEADING typo upstream (#6). I now reads:

As for population control, I think the author deviates from the tradition on this point and is opening the door to any number of human rights abuses.

Forgive my sloppy editing.

+FrG

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By: Cyranorox https://www.aoiusa.org/orthodox-natural-law-theory/#comment-9033 Wed, 24 Feb 2010 02:01:22 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=5860#comment-9033 In reply to cynthia curran.

Yes, we do.

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By: Cyranorox https://www.aoiusa.org/orthodox-natural-law-theory/#comment-9032 Wed, 24 Feb 2010 01:58:49 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=5860#comment-9032 In reply to Ellen Latanzi.

What positions in industry did he hold?

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By: cynthia curran https://www.aoiusa.org/orthodox-natural-law-theory/#comment-8952 Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:08:01 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=5860#comment-8952 Well, this is not the enviromential issue but some orthodox on the left use John Chrysostom sermons on wealth and poverty to favor more government involvement in the economy-another issue that can be debated. What is forgotten is that anicent Constantinople had a huge underemployment problem and citizens existed on free or reduce grain shiped from Egypt. Constantinople had an income gap between rich and poor that is similar to a country like Mexico today than the United State. As father Gregory states, even using the fathers one must consider the changes of the economy and enviroment in the modern world.

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By: Fr Gregory https://www.aoiusa.org/orthodox-natural-law-theory/#comment-8875 Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:59:49 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=5860#comment-8875 Fr Hans,

Overall the book was a well reasoned theological essay. Its policy recommendations–allusions really more than recommendations really–are a different matter.

Because I was limited to 800 or so words, I wasn’t able to explore the policy allusions. While I disagreed with the author on the matter, my substantive criticism is that she failed to demonstrate for the reader the organic connection between the tradition of the Church and the policies she is suggesting.

As for population control, I think the author deviates from the tradition on this point and is opening the door to any number of human rights abuses.

Again, I think problem is that the author is trying to fit her own politics into the tradition of the Church rather than examining them in the tradition’s light. I should point out that this is hardly a shortcoming of the left; one sees this on the right as well.

This is why I wish the author had spent more time establishing a connection between, for example fair trade practices and recycling, and the restoration and reconciliation of creation in Christ. It is not enough to say–from either the left or the right–I am a good person and so the policies I support are good and worthy of support.

Do read the book when you get the chance. I’d be interested in your thoughts on it.

In Christ,

FrG

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By: Michael Bauman https://www.aoiusa.org/orthodox-natural-law-theory/#comment-8870 Wed, 17 Feb 2010 03:16:29 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=5860#comment-8870 In Fr. John Chryssavgis’ book, “Beyond the Shattered Image” he did a similar thing in the second half validating a feminist critique of Christianity and connecting it to healing the earth. Scary.

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By: Fr. Johannes Jacobse https://www.aoiusa.org/orthodox-natural-law-theory/#comment-8863 Wed, 17 Feb 2010 00:17:54 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=5860#comment-8863 Caveat: I have not read the book, but after reading your review I will make a point to read it. However, when you mention such things as a “dangerous flirtation with population control” my alarm starts ringing. Is Theokritoff forcing Orthodox theology to fit her policy biases?

I ask because this is the mistake Constantinople made. Take Fr. John Chryssavgis’ essay that justifies the Ecumenical Patriarch’s environmental activism for example (see: The Green Patriarch: Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew and the Protection of the Environment*). Chryssavgis jumps into support of an Al Gore type of alarmism with no apparent awareness that there are other ways to think about environmental policy. No distinctions are made, no cautions given. It presumes the alarmist claims are self-evidently true. Very sloppy work overall, and all done under the rubric of theological reasoning.

Since Climategate broke, the fraudulent science informing the alarmism is clear for all to see. Meanwhile, as the alarmism is discredited, so are the justifications in the Chryssavgis piece and the Ecumenical Patriarch’s credibility along with it. That’s what happens when policy precedes theology. Is Theokritoff making the same error?

*If Constantinople was smart, it would retire The Green Patriarch website (or at least modify the excesses).

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By: Roger Bennett https://www.aoiusa.org/orthodox-natural-law-theory/#comment-8830 Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:08:01 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=5860#comment-8830 I weigh in not on the merits of this book, but on the importance of Orthodox Christian anthropology. Without a coherent anthropology, every moral precept and every law that circumscribes human behavior will seem arbitrary.
I admire Catholic natural law, aware that the anthropology may be skewed, because it is far more coherent than the Protestant ethics I’ve heard expressed (which drive me to distraction). But I yearn for Orthodox alternatives.

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By: Michael Bauman https://www.aoiusa.org/orthodox-natural-law-theory/#comment-8823 Mon, 15 Feb 2010 22:11:40 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=5860#comment-8823 I have not read the book either although I intend to. However, if the author is seriously suggesting any type of population control, I would say she is either not taking Orthodox anthropology seriously enought to overcome her own pre-conceived bias and/or she has got the anthroplogy wrong to begin with.

A natural law approach is of only limited value in my way of looking at the things because it ultimately ends in some sort of deism rather than the Incarnation. It can be useful and instructive as long as the limitations are noted. It is the deism that will provide the foundation for such policy ideas as population control.

Dualism is a constant temptation in such matters because the mind in which we live is strongly dualistic. The other temptation is to some form of pantheism.

As Orthdox Christians, we are faced with the task of maintained the antinomical position that God is both immenent and transcendent; fully God and fully man; He works in and through us while at the same time His spirit is free to move where He desires. He has already save all of creation, yet to be part of that salvation we must work out our salvation with fear and trembling. An integral part of our salvific work is to dress and keep the earth in a sacramental fashion.

It is quite easy to simply justify our own political and ideological bias.

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By: Ellen Latanzi https://www.aoiusa.org/orthodox-natural-law-theory/#comment-8819 Mon, 15 Feb 2010 21:17:12 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=5860#comment-8819 To All,

While I have not read the above book, for those interested in understanding the environmental movement as it has developed over the last 40 years, I would urge you to read “Saviors of the Earth ?” by Michael S. Coffman.

Mr. Coffman is an evangelical Christian who holds a Ph.D in Forest Science and has conducted research in Ecology and Ecosystem analysis for 35 years in both academia and industry.

This book should be required reading for all serious Christians
who wish to understand how the forces of the environmental movement are shaping our world.

Christ is in our Midst !
neil Latanzi

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