Besides, Islam isn’t the greatest evil – secularism within our own ranks is.

Secular humanism attributes to humanity ‘rights’ and ‘dignity’, advocating the ‘sacredness of human life’, implying also the “sacredness” of its sins.
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Vladimir Lossky, a Russian theologian, wrote that the only alternative to the Trinity is hell.
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If we take a look at some history, we’ll begin to understand and fully appreciate what he meant. Contemporary world, having denied hell, has created hell in its midst. The most murderous regimes arose throughout the 20th century at time of mass murderers like Stalin, Mao Tse-Tung, Hitler and Pol Pot. Hell is here in the abortion clinics. Hell is here in the prisons filled with sadistic murderers and pedophiles. Hell is here in the mental hospitals with their schizophrenic and drug addicts.

Humanism (materialistic worldliness or worship of humanity) has always been the enemy of Orthodox Christianity.
Christians believe fervently that there is a life after death on earth: an eternal life awaits everyone either in Heaven or Hell.

The more a person loves God, the more he loves other people. He loves them with holiness, respect and refinement, as images of God.

When your heart does not have Christ, it will contain either money, property or people instead.

God’s protection diminishes temptation.

Because of widespread corruption, people cannot understand that spiritual love exists. http://agrino.org/cyberdesert/makris.htm

Eliot it is indeed interesting that you say that many believe that “there wasn’t enough love” when fighting heresy. Yet many Orthodox are starting to believe the pre-emptive war effort of western protestantism against the greatest heresy of the last decade: Islam. They seek more love, yet they also want to bomb. Why can’t we just fight the heresy of Islam like we did the rest throughout history and save the bombs for our defense?

Besides, Islam isn’t the greatest evil – secularism within our own ranks is.

Macedonia74:

It is interesting that I find this to be trend from more and more among Orthodox folk –

We know that the Synods condemned Arie, Origen and others. Nowadays we hear that “there wasn’t enough love” when the Synods defended the Truth, the Faith, the holy icons, the cross, etc.
We see the truth and definitions are being changed or reversed. The Scriptures say that in the later times love will grow cold. The father of all lies works as he always did; as the devil did the first time when he said” you will surely not die you will be gods (Gen. 3:4-5).

Anil,

In the past, the people had the ability to themselves correct the worst of the ‘bishops behaving badly’ situations either directly in their towns or with the help of an interested (sometimes too interested) government. In modern times the Latins have burned into US law the inability of the Orthodox people to do that, while also entrenching the begnign dis-interest of the state. So, the leadership feels left to do what they do and the people feel little more to the law than the people who pay the theaters to watch movies or the opera houses to see plays and so forth.

Whlie there are storied bishops of old who caused scandal, the majority of the bishops of old were the head priest of the parishes in a town and were much, much closer to the people and were pastors to them, not administrators of them like now. The ones who took care of their folk and went on to their reward, those were the ones who with their people with whom they were an integral unit formed the body that kept the church alive and brought forth its future— those were the ones that kept the church the church amid the storms in high places.

In modern times with our specializations and compartmentalisations of skills and attention, if we are in a church we are tempted to put on the ‘church categories of thinking’ so we see theological problems and we think first of theological solutions. But the church is a living thing beyond the catgories of academic theology only. For the very first time in human history do women outlive men this past 100 years. Serious thinking needs to be given to what that really, really means. Do you notice there are almost zero young widows and juvenile orphans of clergy these days? Seems totally normal to everyone. Look in the history and you’ll see that is very, very strange and wonderful for the church. Think about daily life then and now. The wholistic nature of the community of faith. Who were the bishops then? What was their life experience? What about now?

There you will find the keys to understanding our present struggle.

Michael: You did not say that you expect a perfect church. I have read “seeing” instead of “seeking”. My mistake …. sorry. I hardly see my bishop once a year and I do not expect from him more than what he is already doing.

I see that you know what is required in order to become more mature. “Fr. Seraphim Rose frequently cautioned that it is not enough to know the words of the Fathers or the activities of the saints–we must, each of us, strive to take on the mind of the Fathers and the humility of the saints in our own lives here and now. As we do that, we become more mature.”

Words alone cannot determine a person to strive for the Kingdom. I started to believe in Christ when I read the life of St. Seraphim of Sarov. Honestly, I looked at the icon of Christ and I said from the bottom of my heart: “truly, You are wonderful in your Saints!”. When I see people criticizing other lees religious people I tell them “I was like him/her ten years ago, why do you criticize me?”

Eliot, I am hard-pressed to understand how anything I’ve said could be interpreted that I am looking for or expect a perfect Church here. That is a form of the heresy of chiliasm. I do want more engaged, apostolic leaders rather than narricistic plutocrats or satraps or tribal chieftans.

The saints are wonderful and their participation with us is a great strength that allows us to endure despite all of our failings, but the idea of the saints can also become a form of antiquarian idolotry and a tool used to slap us down. The idea of the saints can be so presented that they are far ago figures that don’t really have any life anymore–antiquarianism and false worship Fr. Seraphim Rose frequently cautioned that it is not enough to know the words of the Fathers or the activities of the saints–we must, each of us, strive to take on the mind of the Fathers and the humility of the saints in our own lives here and now. As we do that, we become more mature. How many bishops are leading their flocks in such a work, calling us to such a life, working to form communities dedicated to that life?

We cannot wait on the bishops that’s for sure, but neither can we be entirely successful without their participation.

I have seen many comments to the effect that we are obviously not mature enough to have a cannoncial Church here because we don’t have saints. Is anybody looking for them? Certainly not our absentee bishops. +Jonah is the only one who has even mentioned the possibility of recognizing a new local saint: Matuska Olga of Alaska. How many are dedicated to celebrating the ones we have as St. John Maxomovitch taught?

Michael, I completely agree with you. The scandal of “antiquarianism” is just another form of idolatry. It is no different than the heresy of phyletism, except that it worships a culture that no longer exists. To use this as an excuse to not let the jurisdictions in America unite is nothing less than heresy at this point.

The saints do the works of Christ because, by faith and grace, they are united to Him. It is Christ himself, dwelling in them by the Holy Spirit (cf. John 14:10), who works miracles, converts idolaters, reveals the hidden wisdom of spiritual knowledge, reconciles enemies and fortifies the bodies of His saints to meet the most dreadful torments with joy; so that the Gospel continues to be written, even to this day, through the evangelic labours of the saints. [3] Thus, whether near at hand or far away, whether ancient or modern, the saints are trustworthy guides to Christ who dwells in them. Be ye imitators of me, even as I also am of Christ (1 Cor. 11:1), the saints say to us with Saint Paul. If we want to make the image of Christ shine within us, we must often cast our eyes upon the saints to find real, practical examples of how to live. http://orthodoxinfo.com/general/synaxarion_intro.aspx

Lord knows, I am not seeking a perfect Church. I do know what a difference in maturity a godly bishop can make and the rot that sets in when they do not tend their flocks (if they even have one).

The fact that there are many faithful who pray a version of the rabbi’s prayer from Fiddler on the Roof: “God bless and keep the bishop…..far away from us is the scandal. That is leading to schisms.

+Kallistos is just wrong–as he seems to be more and more often lately.

Michael, I agree with you, but there was never a time when bishops didn’t cause scandal, even during the life of the apostles. The Churches in Corinth, Galatia, Rome, Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamon, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea are all rebuked by St Paul and St John. If you expect the Church to be perfect, then you expect heaven on earth which will never happen this side of heaven. More than a few schisms have occurred because of this unwarranted expectation (e.g. Donatists).

That being said, I also agree we need to rebuke our leaders when they stray, and pray for them since they need our prayers to strengthen them.

Makes sense. Thank you Fabio and George.

Eliot,

We, unlike many other attempts at Christianity, are a community. While we each bear the responsibilty of our own salvation, it is certainly impacted by the acts of others whether we like it or not. We can never be mature as a community as long as our leadership remains in a state of dhimmi or secularized academic nirvana giving us the constant mantra: we’re not good enough, mature enough, anything enough. It is a kind of reverse triumpalism that creates a ‘golden age’ mentality that leaves us in a state of antiquarian suspension. Tradition becomes traditionalism. Generation after generation is sacrificed to the narcissism of learned men and their false humility.

We are also a traditional community which means that our faith is handed down through discipling. If we are not mature enough, it is because we are not taught how to be mature or given the opportunities to show our maturity and therefore grow in it.. Our bishops, by and large, prefer the company of other learned and powerful men to the company of their flock. Consequently, we all like sheep have gone astray, each one to our own way, mewling on the hillside while our ‘shepard’ is in town at the casino or ‘at court’ or off somewhere else.

If any bishop feels we are not mature enough, he should strip off his vestments, decline any more invitations to banquets and/or speaking events and go the the poorest, smallest parish in his diocese and spend a month teaching, serving with the priest as a priest at first. Oh, I forgot, a good number of our ‘bishops’ don’t have any parishes in their ‘diocese’ do they? The real fact is they have no idea how mature we are or are not. It is all a fantasy role-playing game.

Eliot, we all know what to do as well. Michael’s point however is well-taken. How many have lost their salvation because of the “madness” (or idiocy) of bishops? We can’t just waive that away simply because we know what the truth is and what’s expected of us. What about the case in which a pastor (and by extension his bishop) allow a notorious sinner to stay in good standing in his church? Besides being a scandal to the weaker brethren, it very much endangers the salvation of the sinner in question.

Also, St Peter said “Fear God, love man, honor the king.” St Paul said that “Caesar does not hold the sword in vain.” Sovereign nations are part of God’s plan for humanity. Where we Orthodox fail is when we bring over our past nationalisms and have them override our present nationality. We do that internally to be sure, but ecclesiologically as well when we report to bishops who are not of our nation.