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Comments on: Official Statement on the ‘Diaspora’ from the Chambesy Conference https://www.aoiusa.org/official-statement-on-the-diaspora-from-the-chambesy-conference/ A Research and Educational Organization that engages the cultural issues of the day within the Orthodox Christian Tradition Fri, 10 Jul 2009 17:12:31 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.3.3 By: AKDS https://www.aoiusa.org/official-statement-on-the-diaspora-from-the-chambesy-conference/#comment-4979 Fri, 10 Jul 2009 17:12:31 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2810#comment-4979 Interesting things can be learnt from looking at the SCOBA-equivalents from other places around the world. I’ve heard that France has it’s own version.

However, what I’d prefer to address is the Oceania episcopal assembly – a concept that, based on previous experience, could perhaps best be described as ‘humourous’.

The Standing Conference of Canonical Orthodox Churches (http://orthodoxwiki.org/SCCOCA) was formed in 1979, and the rules were written so that the EP bishop would be the permanent president. I’m not sure what the real story is behind SCCOCA is… of course, neither is anyone else. Currently, the sum total activities are a SCCOCA-sponsored Divine Liturgy in Sydney in Bright Week, with one auxiliary GOA-Aus bishop and the ruling Serbian Orthodox bishop.

These two jurisdictions (GOA-Aus and Serbian Orthodox Dioceses) are also the sum total of SCCOCA members – there are currently three other jurisdictions with bishops, and four that do not…

Seriously, check out the SCCOCA article on OWiki. http://orthodoxwiki.org/SCCOCA

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By: jamey w. bennett https://www.aoiusa.org/official-statement-on-the-diaspora-from-the-chambesy-conference/#comment-4966 Thu, 09 Jul 2009 21:24:44 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2810#comment-4966 We should take a lesson from the Anglicans. Foreign Anglican bishops got too involved in US affairs as an emergency situation. But even then, men like Archbishop Orombi (Uganda) would say things all the time like, “You Americans need to solve your jurisdiction problems. We don’t like creating jurisdiction in your land. You need to get together and AGREE. Laymen need to FORCE your bishops to agree with each other and solve this mess.” (That’s a paraphrase, but accurately represents things I heard him say in person about 1-1/2 ago.)

Now the conservative Anglicans in North America have not created an Anglican version of SCOBA, but they’ve actually re-constituted themselves into a single province. Now, they still have a jurisdictional mess to sort out over time. BUT – they are constitutionally and doctrinally united, and in addition, have a single archbishop – which is a huge step toward jurisdictional coherence.

The Orthodox in America need to solve this problem. Not a council of men thousands of miles away. Lord have mercy.

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By: George Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/official-statement-on-the-diaspora-from-the-chambesy-conference/#comment-4911 Mon, 06 Jul 2009 02:24:47 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2810#comment-4911 Andrew, the wisdom of Tolkien’s fantasy is profound on so many levels. We could spend decades its ramifications for almost any human endeavor.

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By: Andrew https://www.aoiusa.org/official-statement-on-the-diaspora-from-the-chambesy-conference/#comment-4910 Mon, 06 Jul 2009 01:36:11 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2810#comment-4910 George you know this all kind of sounds like The Council of Elrond in the the movie version of Fellowship of the Ring. Boromir gets up and gives an impassioned speech about his Father the Steward of Gondor and then ends with the boast “Gondor has no king, Gondor needs no king”

The GOA is alot like Boromir and SCOBA has a steward but no lawful chairman.

Search “Council of Elrond Extended Edition” on youtube if you want to check out the clip.

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By: George Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/official-statement-on-the-diaspora-from-the-chambesy-conference/#comment-4908 Mon, 06 Jul 2009 00:20:25 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2810#comment-4908 I think the final straw for the “episcopal assembly” that was last chaired by SCOBA was the last one in which no bishop was allowed to talk about American unity. It had been ruled out of order ahead of time by +Demetrius. A damn shame. How anybody could presume to tell bishops what they can and can’t talk about is beyond me.

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By: Andrew https://www.aoiusa.org/official-statement-on-the-diaspora-from-the-chambesy-conference/#comment-4907 Sun, 05 Jul 2009 22:47:45 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2810#comment-4907 Dare I say SCOBA is a episcopal assembly in captivity. We should have one of those tickers on AOI that shows the years, months, days, minutes etc than the constitution of SCOBA has been violated by the EP and demand the rotating presidency be restored.

Is is too much to ask to follow the constitution?

Has the rotating presidency ever been used?

And who appoints the General Secretary of SCOBA anyway?

Liberate SCOBA, restore law and order and save American Orthodoxy I say!

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By: George Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/official-statement-on-the-diaspora-from-the-chambesy-conference/#comment-4903 Sun, 05 Jul 2009 20:29:31 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2810#comment-4903 Andrew, I forgot about SCOBA’s rotating presidency. Since the ouster of +Iakovos, the Phanar has exposed its bad-faith efforts in this regard. Your analysis is pushing me along the path of why it appears likely that the new episcopal assembly won’t take off. Because the GOA succumbed to the Phanar in this regard, I don’t believe anybody else will believe them this time. It’s kind of like the boy who cried wolf.

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By: Andrew https://www.aoiusa.org/official-statement-on-the-diaspora-from-the-chambesy-conference/#comment-4902 Sun, 05 Jul 2009 19:17:57 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2810#comment-4902 There are some nice thoughts here but lets consider what the SCOBA constitution says and what we have in reality.

The SCOBA Constitution reads

(b) Structure.

1.Presiding Hierarch. The Office of Presiding Hierarch shall pass in turn annually to the presiding hierarchs of the member jurisdictions in order of their precedence in the Church.
2.The Presiding Hierarch shall preside at all meetings.
3.The conference shall elect a Vice-Chairman, who in the absence of the Presiding Hierarch, shall preside at meetings.

Now this is a nice idea, taking turns and being conciliar but in reality we have something different. We have a SCOBA dominated by the EP that is not following its own constitution.

If this is how the EP functions now with a blatant disregard for the order of SCOBA how can we trust any new iniative in the USA.

We have seen how SCOBA works under the GOA primate has head all these years.

How about a change?

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By: George Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/official-statement-on-the-diaspora-from-the-chambesy-conference/#comment-4900 Sun, 05 Jul 2009 18:50:21 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2810#comment-4900 Joe, I dunno, you tell me. Personally I see two Orthodox presences: A conservative body centered around +Jonah and a rump SCOBA centered around the EP.

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By: Joe https://www.aoiusa.org/official-statement-on-the-diaspora-from-the-chambesy-conference/#comment-4899 Sun, 05 Jul 2009 16:03:06 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2810#comment-4899 Speaking as a member of the ROCOR, I can say that George is absolute right about this: “The more conservative jurisdictions (Serbs, ROCOR) aren’t necessarily looking to hitch their wagon to an executive committee that’s dominated by liberals.”

Whatever happens in America, ROCOR and the MP parishes will always remain tied to the Moscow Patriarchate, probably in the form of a Moscow Exarchate. The Russian Churches will never agree to be “adminstered” by outside parties.

SCOBA-like bodies are apparently a new thing in places outside of America, so the Orthodox in other countries are going to give it a shot. Here in America, we can redouble our efforts on the the things that the jurisdictions agree on: IOCC, OCMC, OCF, etc.

Given George’s insight into liberal versus conservative, It seems likely that SCOBA-like bodies will develop along those lines in the future in this country. Who would be included the Conservative SCOBA? The Liberal SCOBA?

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By: George Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/official-statement-on-the-diaspora-from-the-chambesy-conference/#comment-4897 Sun, 05 Jul 2009 13:43:36 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2810#comment-4897 John Panos (The John I wrote to was Mr Couretas), I think you are probably right. Notice all the caveats I put in my assessment. I chose not to discuss the term “diaspora” out of charity to the bishops who crafted this statement. Nor did I choose to point out that no American bishop was invited. I’m really trying to view this statement as the glass being “half full.” I’m afraid you’re right however. If this is just window-dressing for a “SCOBA second generation” at least here in America, it’s doomed to fail.

I honestly don’t think that the majority of American bishops are going to show up for any more than one meeting. They’ll probably attend the first, but if they get a whiff of more of the same, I think it’ll just go away. As it is right now, I think SCOBA is pretty much dead in the water as well. and for much the same reasons.

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By: George Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/official-statement-on-the-diaspora-from-the-chambesy-conference/#comment-4895 Sun, 05 Jul 2009 12:05:36 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2810#comment-4895 John,

Although this looks to be a giant step in the right direction, two caveats spring instantly to mind: 1. It’s SCOBA enlarged (thereby ineffectual), and 2. It’s unworkable, at least here in the US. The American bishops are going to want to meet more than once a year, there’s way too many problems in our society and they aren’t gonna want to subcontract them out to the old SCOBA. (I do like the idea of a bicameral synod though.)

Just as SCOBA has devolved into a massive waste of time, I don’t think there’s gonna be any takers for this in North America. In the other regions, yeah, but they’re working from the ground up and need all the help that they can get. These episcopal assemblies would work fine in Oceania or S America, but there’s too much history here in N America. Plus, the Russians have a special history in North America and they ain’t conceding that (nor should they).

There are other reasons that come to mind: 1. I don’t think the GOA bishops will go for it because their numbers would be overwhelmed. 2. The non-GOA/OCA bishops are waiting to see which way the wind blows. If they think that the American episcopal assembly is just another stop-gap to frustrate unity and ensure GOA hegemony then they’ll do one of two things: a. stay where they are, or b. start joining the OCA.

Of course, there’s the problem of Orthopraxy. The more conservative jurisdictions (Serbs, ROCOR) aren’t necessarily looking to hitch their wagon to an executive committee that’s dominated by liberals. And let’s be honest, although the Ukies and ACROD can’t be considered liberal, they know their place in the pecking order and have never challenged the EP/GOA as it continues its trek towards a more relaxed Orthopraxy. One can counter this by saying that they’ve kept their own rubrics intact but I’ve never heard them complain about the general worldly and liberal drift of the other SCOBA jurisdictions (including the AOCA).

Anyway, that’s my take. Chambesy is still a huge comedown for the EP and for that he deserves credit. If this was done in good faith and was guided by the Holy Spirit, then it will profit God’s Church. If it was simply another ingenious way to prevent the formation of new autocephalous churches, then it will fail.

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By: John Panos https://www.aoiusa.org/official-statement-on-the-diaspora-from-the-chambesy-conference/#comment-4892 Sun, 05 Jul 2009 04:09:35 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2810#comment-4892 This is the plan? A new SCOBA?

I think these guys need a history lesson, and a vocabulary lesson, about what a diaspora is. We are being co-opted out of our own faith.

Why do they continue to use this term? The very use of this term does violence to the Great Commission, the history of the Christian Church, and to our identity as members of the Church of Christ. Christians do not ‘belong’ to any particular territory. Christians can not be in diaspora. Period.

This is a dangerous precedent, to be using this word ‘diaspora’ for missionary territories. It is not historically accurate, nor has it ever been used by Christians before. It betrays the ethno-centric identity of Orthodoxy in the vision of these hierarchs.

This means it is not Christo-centric. It does promulgate ‘ethnic identity,’ keeping the Church bound to a culture club vision and mission, and making sure their ecclesiastical identity is never, ever indigenous.

Now we see that the EP’s chosen representatives will be supervising the Episcopal Assemblies designed to promote and guard Orthodox unity?

Well, SCOBA has failed miserably in promoting and guarding Orthodox unity. We can thank the EP’s designated supervisors for that too. Is there some reason we should expect something more or better from a new SCOBA-type assembly?

My friends have a poignant way to describe this kind of accomplishment – epic failure.

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