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Comments on: OCA Bishop Matthias Reaffirms Orthodox Teaching on Homosexuality https://www.aoiusa.org/oca-bishop-matthias-reaffirms-orthodox-teaching-on-homosexuality/ A Research and Educational Organization that engages the cultural issues of the day within the Orthodox Christian Tradition Mon, 15 Apr 2013 04:23:29 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.3.3 By: Orthodox U.S. Bishop Out in Sex Harassment Scandal ← Moral Compass https://www.aoiusa.org/oca-bishop-matthias-reaffirms-orthodox-teaching-on-homosexuality/#comment-27800 Mon, 15 Apr 2013 04:23:29 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=10525#comment-27800 […] [image via aoiusa.org] […]

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By: Brad Theophilus James https://www.aoiusa.org/oca-bishop-matthias-reaffirms-orthodox-teaching-on-homosexuality/#comment-21578 Fri, 23 Sep 2011 16:10:47 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=10525#comment-21578 In reference to the comments made on Mark Stokoe’s blog. As an Orthodox Christian, I have to go with bishop Matthias decision on removing Mark Stokoe. I know His Grace personally and I know he is a God fearing man who lives by his strong convictions. Your harsh words against Vladika Matthias does not only harm the integrity of the Church, but they also harm the souls of men. I would be careful with speaking against Metropolitan Joseph and Bishop Matthias on their decision. St. Irenaeus Bishop of Antioch said, He who acts without the bishop’s knowledge is in the devil’s service. It is obvious that Mark Stokoe acted without the bishop’s knowledge and that is why he is being removed. Many on this blog have shed innocent blood against His Grace Bishop Matthias and your words have sown discord among brethren in regards to you comments. His Grace Bishop Matthias reaffirmed the Orthodox teaching on homosexuality on August 3rd by reiterating what Metropolitan Joseph said, “men and women with homosexual feelings and emotions are to be treated with the understanding, acceptance, love, justice and mercy due to all human beings.” He also said, “Marriage and family life are to be defended and protected against every open and subtle attack and ridicule.” I agree with these to statements because although we should love the sinner we should not love the sin. The holy scriptures are clear that homosexuality falls in the same category as bestiality because neither one of these acts are part of God’s order. Many believe that a homosexual is born this way and the Church should just accept their life style. However this is the furthest thing from the truth because it is a deception from the father of lies to desecrate the Church of Christ. The Orthodox faithful should listen to their bishop’s on this subject and not to their darken reason. The faithful should understand that God didn’t create the devil to be evil anymore then he created a person to be a homosexual. In the book of Genesis, when God created something it was good and when he created man in his image it was very good.
The holy scriptures are clear about seven things the Lord detest or an abomination.
Proverbs 6:16-19
16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. (KJV)
Elder Joseph the Hesychast said, “humility keeps the demons in chains.” I would suggest that everyone on this blog should listen to these words and stop puffing yourselves up with the words that tear down others — especially Bishops.

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By: Michael Bauman https://www.aoiusa.org/oca-bishop-matthias-reaffirms-orthodox-teaching-on-homosexuality/#comment-21245 Fri, 19 Aug 2011 15:18:27 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=10525#comment-21245 In reply to Rob.

Rob, Perhaps my example was too crude, but when one identifies oneself as anything other than a living being made in the image and likeness of God but maimed by sin we are turning away from God and our own humanity. The end result is horror.

In addition, my point was to highlight the logical progression of Zachery’s false anthropology, i.e, if a pathology exists in nature it must be OK and if it exists in nature it is immutable (just the way someone is). What goes for the animals goes for us because, after all we are nothing but evolved animals.

Psychopaths such as Jeffrey Dahlmer identify themselves with their sins rather than their humanity. The PC approach to homosexuality is the strikingly similar: if one rejects the sin, one rejects them as human beings. The anger, despair and other self-destructive acts that are the fruit of such identification trap them. By acknowledging our sins, repenting of them and submitting to the love of Christ transformation is possible, even escape from the darkest, most evil places our vain imaginings can put us.

If one is to make the argument that we are immutable, as many genetic and social determinists do these days, there is simply no basis for any ordering of society except survial of the fittest. If we are required to ‘love’ homosexuals as they are and required to allow them to act out their sins without any oppobrium and even approve of those acts, on what basis are we to condemn even darker and more evil sins?

Indeed, marriage has been disconnected from God as have most of our lives. Marriage has become an act of human lust, emotion and will. Since the depravity of our imaginations approaches the infinite, all sorts of ways for satisfying our lust, emotions and will can be found. That is what Jeffrey Dalhmer did.

That is exactly what St. Paul was pointing out in Romans 1 and elsewhere.

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By: Rob https://www.aoiusa.org/oca-bishop-matthias-reaffirms-orthodox-teaching-on-homosexuality/#comment-21243 Fri, 19 Aug 2011 01:35:13 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=10525#comment-21243 In reply to Michael Bauman.

Michael, the modern acceptance of homosexuality has much to do with the evolution of our own conceptualization of heterosexual marriage. For many people in developed nations, the concept of marriage and sexuality has more to do with personal fulfillment, finding one’s “soul mate”, convenience, affection and even material advantage than it does living out a religious sacrament with all of its obligations and considerations.*

As such, it’s really not hard to see same-sex relationships is merely another avenue to these particular ends.

If you wish to critique these notions in light of your understanding of Orthodox moral theology, please do so. It does no justice to the discussion, however, to bring cannibalism and rape into it as if they are naturally the end result of the toleration of homosexual conduct.

*On the plus side, women are now seen as co-equals and partners in marriage (unlike in the colonial era when they forfeited most of their legal rights). Unfortunately, marriage is now for too many just another disposable relationship where one’s word and commitment last only so long as the money and romance does.

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By: A Response to an Open Letter on Homosexuality | OrthodoxNet.com Blog https://www.aoiusa.org/oca-bishop-matthias-reaffirms-orthodox-teaching-on-homosexuality/#comment-21242 Thu, 18 Aug 2011 18:23:43 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=10525#comment-21242 […] last line here seems to be in reference to my own words. It is hyperlinked in the original version to an article about Bishop Matthias’s letter, and the first comment is my […]

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By: I Blase https://www.aoiusa.org/oca-bishop-matthias-reaffirms-orthodox-teaching-on-homosexuality/#comment-21233 Tue, 16 Aug 2011 17:17:51 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=10525#comment-21233 I’ve been saying for the past several years, that this issue of homosexuality is going to tear apart the American Orthodoxy. Sadly, it’s happening even quicker than I imagined.

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By: Michael Bauman https://www.aoiusa.org/oca-bishop-matthias-reaffirms-orthodox-teaching-on-homosexuality/#comment-21180 Tue, 09 Aug 2011 00:31:04 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=10525#comment-21180 In reply to Eliot Ryan.

Hey, Jeffrey Dahlmer anyone? . How can anyone doubt his strength of belief and commitment to his personal identy as a cannabilistic, homosexual serial killer? Surely that is who he was, right? People are just way to judgemental about him man. Lighten up.

Where is your arbitrary line on sexual practices drawn Zachary and by what ‘right’ or reason do you draw it?

What is your replacement for the Christian understanding of human beings and on what authority to you seek to overturn our understanding?

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By: Eliot Ryan https://www.aoiusa.org/oca-bishop-matthias-reaffirms-orthodox-teaching-on-homosexuality/#comment-21175 Mon, 08 Aug 2011 21:00:50 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=10525#comment-21175 Zachary: The praying mantis is known for its cannibalistic mating process; pet mice eat each other; incest in the animal kingdom does exist. Is this what lies ahead of us? Acceptance of homosexuality is just the first step of the future regression of mankind!

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By: Geo Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/oca-bishop-matthias-reaffirms-orthodox-teaching-on-homosexuality/#comment-21159 Sun, 07 Aug 2011 22:32:00 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=10525#comment-21159 In reply to Zachary Schultzhaus.

Zachary, “wikipedia” and “The Washington Post” are hardly reputable “scientific” sources.

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By: Geo Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/oca-bishop-matthias-reaffirms-orthodox-teaching-on-homosexuality/#comment-21158 Sun, 07 Aug 2011 22:29:35 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=10525#comment-21158 In reply to Zachary Schultzhaus.

Zachary, when you say that “psychologists” consider homosexuality to be fundamentally different than pedophilia or bestiality you are going over a logical cliff. My first answer would be “so?” What gives them the right to make this judgment? Especially when just a few decades ago they were unanimous in their belief that homosexuality was very much a psychological aberration?

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By: Karen https://www.aoiusa.org/oca-bishop-matthias-reaffirms-orthodox-teaching-on-homosexuality/#comment-21154 Sun, 07 Aug 2011 17:26:40 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=10525#comment-21154 In reply to Zachary Schultzhaus.

“Homosexuality is widespread in the kingdom Animalia.”

Zachary,

Just thought I’d point out that so is eating one’s own newborn young (under certain conditions–or for the male of some species, under any conditions, which is why the female drives him off after mating)!

Transparently, what you state here is not a valid argument for why homosexual behavior is healthy, right, and good among human beings. As others have pointed out this is true, particularly when you start with the Christian tradition’s revelation of what a human being actually is, i.e., an embodied spirit made in the image of God for the ultimate purpose of a spiritual Communion of love with the Being of God (and in the likeness of God’s kind of Self-giving, life-giving love revealed in Jesus Christ). Christians do not believe we are merely advanced animals, programmed to be conditioned by our environment within the limitations of our genetic potential and completely at the mercy of our own basic instincts or physical drives.

Science can describe what is. It cannot be the sole guide to establish the proper values and relationships among those things. For that, we have to look outside of science.

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By: Geo Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/oca-bishop-matthias-reaffirms-orthodox-teaching-on-homosexuality/#comment-21146 Sat, 06 Aug 2011 22:18:12 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=10525#comment-21146 In reply to Zachary Schultzhaus.

Zachary, anal coition is the unsafe sexual practice that causes AIDS. It’s an abnormality, one that causes fissures to the rectum and inocculates the blood stream with semen (hence the high proportion of Hepatitis B suffers among the catamite sub-strata). The only possible evolutionary reason that animals may engage at times in homosexuality is to subjugate a potential genetic rival. In human societies this was done by castrating rogue males.

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By: Geo Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/oca-bishop-matthias-reaffirms-orthodox-teaching-on-homosexuality/#comment-21144 Sat, 06 Aug 2011 22:13:41 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=10525#comment-21144 In reply to Leslie in Chicago.

Leslie, your reference to another correspondent’s post (which shows an inaccurate understanding of history) does not buttress your own point. The abolition of slavery was set in motion by Constantine the Great and given theological sanction by St Gregory of Nyssa. The reintroduction of slavery in the early modern period happened in spite of Christianity and the trajectory of freedom begun in the West by the Church a millenium earlier.

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By: Geo Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/oca-bishop-matthias-reaffirms-orthodox-teaching-on-homosexuality/#comment-21143 Sat, 06 Aug 2011 22:10:20 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=10525#comment-21143 In reply to Dave & Kathy Hanneman.

Dave, Kathy, other Midwesterners, et al: you are indeed fortunate to have such a man as bishop. If I may press a certain point: is Mark Stokoe in his diocese? And if so, has he been disciplined by his archpastor? It would seem the first step would be to remove him from the Metropolitan Council.

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By: Fr. Johannes Jacobse https://www.aoiusa.org/oca-bishop-matthias-reaffirms-orthodox-teaching-on-homosexuality/#comment-21138 Sat, 06 Aug 2011 19:28:59 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=10525#comment-21138 In reply to Fr. Johannes Jacobse.

Well, isn’t this interesting. The past president of the APA who was adamantly against reparative therapy changes his mind and is now a featured speaker at NARTH. Yet you argue that the way he used to think should prevail.

Could it be that the question is not a closed as you want us to think it is?

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