George,

I think your imagination is running away with you.

You seem to be willing to say anything in order to try to discredit the GOA.

If your attitude is typical of the OCA (I pray it is not), the status quo of jurisdictional disunity is sad and lamentable, but acceptable.

I believe you are correct. In my talk with you, I talked about the “collapse” of the other confessions. I meant that. We have so much to be thankful for. That is why I’m so angry at what I see with all this jurisdictionalism. It’s the devil’s work.

My comments were rhetorical, I guess. I don’t have general solutions. For me, I am trying in my thinking and work to venture out more from my “Orthodox cocoon”, and engage in ideas and with people beyond my “tribe” – to “human” and “pan-Christian” interests. I, too, get caught up in Orthodox parochialism and our intrigues, scandals, internal politics and so on. It’s all very interesting of course, but only to fellow Orthodox, a very small and unfortunately insignificant demographic. In addition to consistent debating of the fine points of all this amongst ourselves, maybe we need to take a break, put the periscope up and take a good, long look around. And ask our hierarchs to do the same. As compelling as these issues are to us, most people I speak with don’t know ROCOR from asparagus. Are we just talking to ourselves??

Tom, re point #3, yes, I do believe the GOA made it up, or heavily misunderstood +Hilarion. Again, it’s just a simple question, there’s a lot of pretty pictures on the ROCOR website about the event but hardly any content whatsoever, and nothing approximating what the GOA’s website says. All I ask is that they print it to settle the issue once and for all. It’s not like I’m asking for the sun, moon and stars. The fact that they haven’t possibly indicates that they think they’re being used by the GOA.

and yes, Scott, the Orthopraxia is night and day. We’re talking USMC versus the meter maids. But that’s where we find ourselves should there really be a “back-door deal” between the MP and the EP (which I don’t believe).

George,

Where did you ever get the idea that there is any possibility of ROCOR coming under the GOA? It may be what the Phanar would like but I for one can’t even imagine such a thing happening. There is a world of difference in understanding of orthopraxis between the GOA and ROCOR.

If you have any information on such a thing, I’d love to see it.

George,

1. I would say that he is a little bit of a game player (politician or diplomat perhaps might be a better term), and that he is in a difficult situation given the reality that he inherited. Perhaps he is also as confused as most are about how to solve this US sitiation. Finally, I would say that maybe they realize as well that the “autocephaly” was a bit premature and did not have the effect which was initial envisioned.

2. Perhaps because for the first time in 40+ years the two are groups are in communion. Perhaps because some hierarchs (from both jurisdiction) acted stubbornlyThough there has been contact between the GOA and ROCOR hierarchs for several years now. Leave it to you to ask why something has not happened (Pictures of GOA hierarchs with ROCOR hierarchs) and then when it does youe say “Why did this happen?” Depends on the definition of “is”.

3. The article is different, the content is not contradictory. Do you suspect that the GOA made up the account?

4. The GOA likes them just fine or they would not be under the omophoria (is this proper plural) of GOA hierarchs. Are there questions and concerns? Yes. Are there some (indeed perhaps many clergy and laity who do not like them? Yes. Perhaps this is one of the biggest problems in the GOA. For so long we existed with a huge and important part of Orthodoxy absent in the US. Monasteries. When they finally (thank God) started popping up some people went bananas in favor of them and some went bananas against them. Hopefully these extremes will mellow. But people on both sides of the issue need to be more Orthodox in their approach.

Just so you know,these are answers to your four questions listed above. I am sure Joe (and/or others) will answer for themselves, but just because you don’t like or agree with the answers does not mean that they are not correct.

This is factual btw (re-read Lambrianides’ speech). This leads me to another question: why have the GOA bishops placed an embargo on the creation of any further such “canonical” monasteries?

OK, let’s see that’s four questions I will continue to ask rhetorically of course:

1. Is +Kirill a game-player or a prevaricator?
2. How come the GOA just all of a sudden sent +Demetrius to Jordanville? (40+ years!)
3. How come the official ROCOR website account is so radically different in its content from the GOA website?
4. How come the GOA doesn’t like these “canonical” monasteries?

These questions will continue to be asked. (Others of course will come to the fore as you continue to grasp at straws.) As long as they remain unanswered, your points will continue to be invalidated. The only thing that will be apparent is your very real hatred towards God-pleasing bishops. You’re making it too easy for me.

Good day.

I’m sorry, but I can’t follow what you are going on about.

As a point of etiquette, the term,”Eprhaimite” as it refers to the monasteries established by Geronda Ephraim, is considered a pejorative by the Fathers.

Better descriptors are “Athonite” and “canonical.”

“Demetrios, head of the Greek Archdiocese of America, visited…”

Let’s see, what was missing?

1. “Primate,”
2. “Orthodox,”
3. “Church,”

and of course “‘Chief Archpastor.” His title btw, is “Archbishop of America.” There may be less here than meets the eye.

I did love the pictures however, I’m glad when primates of the various jurisdictions visit each other, even if it took 40 years to do so.

Michael,

Re: 110

I do not dissagree with most of your post.

Especially the following.

“The jurisdictional mess is mostly a symptom of the dysfunction, not a cause. Continuing to focus all our energy on the symptom will not help.”

George,

Lemme know if the ROCOR parishe commemorated Jonah and MoAA&C INSTEAD of Met. Hilarion. Just curious. You do understand irony don’t you?

George,

“I had always stated AT Jordanville.”

How can you continue to lie about this when IN WRITING everyone can see the truth?

I posted EXACTLY what you said, and you did not always say “AT Jordanville”. You are making yourself look pathetic.

The rest of your post is just “Georgantine Games” and back pedaling to try to make some sense out of what is going on.