It would be much better if we did not reciprocate the “separated brethren” mentality. Really, I don’t see them as close as either the Continuing Anglican Churches or the Oriental Orthodox Churches.

Again: Don’t try to convert Roman Catholicism, convert Roman Catholics.

“I would like to mention the desirability that our clerics participate in the church-wide postgraduate education program, which the Patriarch Kyrill assigned to Vladyka Hilarion, Archbishop of Volokalamsk, to establish.”

Thanks, Stephen

As much as I treasure the monastic witness found in Orthodoxy, whatever hope I have for salvation I owe to the Risen Lord, not to any man.

JAMES 5:20 “Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his ways will save him from death, and coverith a multitude of sins”

We have powerful intercessors before God: the Theotokos and the Saints. The enemy of our soul hates them because the Salvation came into the world through the Theotokos and the Saints show us th way to the Kingdom. The teachings of the Saints give us the wisdom so that we can safely overcome the temptations. There is no salvation without temptation! The enemy of our soul lays many traps and without humility and wisdom on our side he may defeat us!
The Risen Lord will not automatically be your intercessor before the Father. This is the mistake that the Protestants & all make and I believe it is a prideful attitude.

“In Orthodox monasticism a perfect therapeutic treatment exists -consisting of purification, illumination and theosis…

“It is observed nowadays as well that many people approach sanctified monks, who practise the therapeutic treatment of the Church, to ask them on matters of spiritual life. The people of our days feel that they must be healed of their passions. They live in the suffocating atmosphere of passions and want to be delivered from them. They are aware that a formal Church attendance is not enough. The appropriate method is also necessary. That is why monks are always the shepherds of the people in a indirect way, although they are not directly such. They do not substitute for the work of the shepherds, but they preserve and use the therapeutic treatment which has been lost in contemporary ecclesiastical life. Or, even if it is not lost, at least, it is replaced by a moral mode of life. However man’s soul, which yearns for real communion with God, does not find rest in anthropocentric systems and humanistic methods of therapy. It seeks something genuine and authentic. Monks therefore are the theologians of the Church in the sense which we developed in this conversation. They know God and can guide man unerringly to reach God. Furthermore they distinguish the uncreated from the created and thus they can guide in an Orthodox manner.”

– Metropolitan Hierotheos of Nafpaktos

In his interview Metropolitan Jonah (speaking loosely according to the kindly Joseph noted) spoke words about the Roman Catholic Church that would be greeted with outrage by the “traditional” Orthodox in the Church, for example, the Fathers of Mount Athos (to whom I owe my very life and any hope I have of salvation).

Where Metropolitan Jonah said:

“Roman Catholics also possess uninterrupted apostolic succession, that which in English is called integrity, but liturgically they departed from it. But their faith is more or less right, although with additions (laughs).”

The Fathers of Mount Athos have said:

“We believe that our Holy Orthodox Church is the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church of Christ, having the fullness of Grace and the Truth, and for this reason, an uninterrupted Apostolic Succession. On the contrary, the ‘churches’ and the ‘confessions’ of the West, having distorted the faith of the Gospel, the Apostles and the Fathers on many points, are deprived of the hallowing Grace, the true Sacraments and the Apostolic Succession…”

See the difference?

Some Orthodox would agree with Metropolitan Jonah and disagree with the Fathers of the Holy Mountain. Some would agree with the Fathers of the Holy Mountain and disagree with Metropolitan Jonah.

I used the words of Metropolitan Jonah to illustrate the line of demarcation that will someday separate the two American Orthodox groups in America. I hope Andrew is right and Metropolitan Jonah was speaking loosely… and we can laugh haha, along with him.

I grant your point that though the OCA is modernist, there are “more modernist” jurisdictions, but we must all ask ourselves where will modernism and more modernism lead us in the future?

A little humility is called for: of the three largest jurisdictions, only the AOCA has removed itself. (And they have long been considered the most liberal.)

I thought you guys would be happy to hear that Orthodox Christians in America will join together in the future.

Okay, there will be two American Orthodox groups…but isn’t that better than none at all?

Anyway, why should anyone be surprised at that this Elder should say such things in the evil time in which we are living now?

This not the first time that a Saint has exercised his prophetic gift to warn the Church about the possibility of apostasy within her ranks.

For instance, read what was said during the time of the early, Early Church:

St. John the Theologian (I John 2): “Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.”

I can imagine a future scenario when the two groups will point to the other as the ones who “went out from us.”

May God grant his children discernment during this evil time!

It is not clear how carefully the Metropolitan was speaking when he talked about Rome’s orthodoxy. Casually speaking and using a certain measuring stick, Rome is more or less right with regard to its doctrines. They do have many problems, and if Metr. Jonah were to address the issue more carefully, I hope that he would explain some significant shortcomings in Latin theology. Compared to Gaia worshipping Episcopalians, though, Rome looks pretty solid — or at least “official” Romanism does.

I think that it is dangerous to treat the words of our bishops like the press treats politicians that it does not like — imagining the secret subtext that gives them away as awful folks with horrid ideas. To use fancy jargon, we should not employ a hermeneutic of hostility toward our bishops.

Granted, I have a dismal view of a few ecclesial leaders, but I try to give them the benefit of the doubt. Metr. Jonah is new; let us not presuppose things about him from fear or pessimism.

However, it would be nice if the OCA left the NCC. It’s a scandal that any Orthodox Church remains a party to such a group.

Joseph

This can be the definition of ecumenism. Prophecy really works. There were (still are I believe) people of God who would tell their visitors: you are Name Surname, you did this and this and you came to me for this and that problem. By the Grace of God they know the causes of the problems, what needs to be done and what would happen otherwise. One such man was the hieromonk Arsenie Boca. Fr Arsenie said that ecumenism represents the falling of the Orthodox Church by the hand of her servants. I have no doubts about this!

I would like to be in the “small, but strong and very bright” group for the Lord will be with them. I do not know where I’ll end up. We do not know which side +Jonah will be in the end.

I also think Met. Jonah is a wonderful leader, no matter what fictitious elders and slanders say.