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Comments on: It is time to finish what began at Ligonier! https://www.aoiusa.org/it-is-time-to-finish-what-began-at-ligonier/ A Research and Educational Organization that engages the cultural issues of the day within the Orthodox Christian Tradition Wed, 26 May 2010 03:35:52 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.3.3 By: Fr John https://www.aoiusa.org/it-is-time-to-finish-what-began-at-ligonier/#comment-11634 Wed, 26 May 2010 03:35:52 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=6701#comment-11634 In reply to S. Danckaert.

Only Ireneu looks to be of foreign citizenry, if one counts Mexican and Canadian as ‘native’, which I do in this case since that’s where they serve.

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By: George Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/it-is-time-to-finish-what-began-at-ligonier/#comment-11538 Sat, 22 May 2010 12:19:51 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=6701#comment-11538 In reply to Isa Almisry.

Isa, my point exactly. If I remember correctly, +Iakovos was a citizen of the United States. The picture you reference shows exactly what I’m talking about, he wasn’t some colonialist living in the compound who only rarely ventured out into the bush while on safari. He loved this land and its people, something that I don’t necessarily get everytime I read The Orthodox Disburber.

If I may, the difference in that publication since the time of +Iakovos’ heyday is striking. I remember as a teenager reading articles that dealt with moral issues. Now it’s mostly sloppily written essays on abstruse canons that prove that the Phanar is the fons et origo of Orthodoxy and happy-talk intervies on parishes and their building programs.

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By: George Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/it-is-time-to-finish-what-began-at-ligonier/#comment-11537 Sat, 22 May 2010 12:11:17 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=6701#comment-11537 In reply to Joseph.

Joseph, as these men live in Canada, and +Alejo lives in Mexico, I believe this proves my point. As I have pointed out on several occasions, I believe that an autocephalous American church should not subjugate the churches of other sovereign nations. Canada and Mexico are both sovereign nations and in the interests of consistency I would hope that their bishops be not only citizens of these nations but natives as well (and better yet from the dominant racial stock of these nations).

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By: Joseph https://www.aoiusa.org/it-is-time-to-finish-what-began-at-ligonier/#comment-11528 Sat, 22 May 2010 00:38:57 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=6701#comment-11528 Archbp. +Seraphim of Ottawa and Canada is Canadian and so is +Bp. Irenee of Quebec City… both are Bishops of the OCA

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By: Isa Almisry https://www.aoiusa.org/it-is-time-to-finish-what-began-at-ligonier/#comment-11527 Sat, 22 May 2010 00:12:39 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=6701#comment-11527 In reply to George Michalopulos.

I’m not sure that is necessary: St. Tikhon became a citizen but St. Raphael I do not think did. I believe he planned to eventually to return to Syria, and St. Tikhon did end up back in Russia. I think Archb. Iakovos, although retiring abroad, did the honorable thing by America, as seen by the picture of him in the civil rights march.

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By: George Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/it-is-time-to-finish-what-began-at-ligonier/#comment-11526 Fri, 21 May 2010 22:22:19 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=6701#comment-11526 In reply to S. Danckaert.

S., that statement makes no sense. Just curious, which four of the OCA bishops are not American citizens? the first Apostolic Canon said it best: “let the ecclesial model follow the municipal one.”

On another note, it has always been the rule of gentlemen that if you live in a country, you uphold its institutions. This means paying taxes, serving in its armed forces (if called to do so), honor its magistrates, and so on. One could make a reasonable case that the quest for citizenship by a resident alien would be the honorable thing to do.

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By: Isa Almisry https://www.aoiusa.org/it-is-time-to-finish-what-began-at-ligonier/#comment-11521 Fri, 21 May 2010 17:39:00 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=6701#comment-11521 In reply to S. Danckaert.

The Times Square Bomber was an American citizen too. What was the point?

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By: S. Danckaert https://www.aoiusa.org/it-is-time-to-finish-what-began-at-ligonier/#comment-11520 Fri, 21 May 2010 17:15:11 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=6701#comment-11520 All of the GOA bishops are American citizens, unlike a good number of bishops from other jurisdictions, including at least two, maybe four, from the OCA. The Assembly isn’t for Americans only. Just a cursory glance shows that the citizenship of the Bishops will be varied, with citizens of the Russian Federation, Serbia, Bulgaria, Romania, Greece, Canada, Mexico, and the United States as members.

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By: George Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/it-is-time-to-finish-what-began-at-ligonier/#comment-11511 Thu, 20 May 2010 22:38:17 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=6701#comment-11511 John, wonderful point! Even though Greece is going to hell in a handbasket right now, I can’t for the life of me see how any self-respecting Hellene would sell out his patrimony for the thin gruel of presiding over a defunct archdiocese. Are there no men with spine left in the GOA episcopate?

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By: John Panos https://www.aoiusa.org/it-is-time-to-finish-what-began-at-ligonier/#comment-11510 Thu, 20 May 2010 21:26:48 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=6701#comment-11510 This article displays information which is indisputably accurate, and frankly, soft peddling the issue a bit.

Why is no one asking the GOA directly “Which Metropolitans are now Turkish citizens?”

I think that would be an excellent prelude to this Assembly, don’t you?

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