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Comments on: Islam and the Closing of the Secular Mind https://www.aoiusa.org/islam-and-the-closing-of-the-secular-mind/ A Research and Educational Organization that engages the cultural issues of the day within the Orthodox Christian Tradition Mon, 24 Sep 2012 22:23:12 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.3.3 By: Harry Coin https://www.aoiusa.org/islam-and-the-closing-of-the-secular-mind/#comment-26018 Mon, 24 Sep 2012 22:23:12 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=12220#comment-26018 In reply to Fr. Hans Jacobse.

Fr. Hans description exactly grips it. ..”all that self-serving nonsense that merely justifies a preoccupation with the novel, freakish and other contrivances used to escape meaninglessness and boredom” The manner of the ‘escape’ is attention-craving, the would-be artist gives up on the effort required to generate positive attention, and chooses the quick easy cheap path to generate negative attention: leveraging the effort and history referenced in the abused symbol. These ‘artists’ are not so different from the ‘news editors’ complicit in showing clips in a tight TV close up of “a vast crowd” shown burning a flag– because a ‘wide shot’ would reveal 5 involved nuts, 10 hangers-on, and mostly otherwise disinterested passers-by.

These same ‘newsmen’ and ‘art-critic columnists’ talk about the ‘shock art’ for the same reasons — trying to get eyes on their pages otherwise so uninteresting no business is willing to purchase advertising that runs nearby. Really this is exploiting the lack of detail in the ‘readership’ or ‘viewership’ numbers, the idea that ‘all attention is good attention’. I think that’s false, but proving that is not in the interest of firms supported by advertising.

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By: Fr. Hans Jacobse https://www.aoiusa.org/islam-and-the-closing-of-the-secular-mind/#comment-26012 Mon, 24 Sep 2012 04:01:39 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=12220#comment-26012 In reply to Pere LaChaise.

Serrano tried (much more successfully) to reinvest the trivialized, miniature dime-store plastic crucifix with its original mystery and sorrow.

Let me see if I understand this. The meaning of the crucifix has been trivialized because people have made dime-store plastic crucifixes and so forth. Submersing the crucifix in a jar of urine exposes the trivialization and this didactic function gives the piece its value. Is that how it works?

But doesn’t Serrano’s submersing of the crucifix in urine trivialize (desacrilize) the crucifix in the same way you say he decries? Of course it does. If he understood the sacred power of the symbol, he never would have desecrated it by submersing it in urine.

You argue that Serrano’s desecration is self-redemptive or self-validating, but if your point was true it would required that Serrano sees the symbol as sacred. Submersing the crucifix in urine proves that he doesn’t.

The piece then only functions to shock, despite your attempt to derive meaning by imputing virtues that are not there. And that shock value exists only because the cultural memory of the sacred dimension of the symbol still exists. The piece then is parasitic; it depends on the power of the symbol it desecrates to give it meaning.

The same happens with Ofili as I explained in my essay. These symbols have a definite meaning and power. If the purpose is to recontextualize them for whatever reason, then why did one artist chose urine and the other elephant feces? Do you really believe that using the two basest elements of bodily excretion was not a deliberate choice calculated to shock?

Maybe this is just tawdry marketing — two Howard Sterns or Jerry Springers of the art world. More likely it is just what I described.

Tell you what. If Serrano’s piece really has the meaning you think it has, pee in a jar, stick a crucifix in it, and display it on your mantle for all your guests to see. Tell them it shows how plastic crucifixes trivialize the meaning of the symbol. Then have someone report back to you what they really say when you are not around.

The rest of your post is just tiresome — the idealization of mainstream art, the mythology of the establishment artist as social rebel, the moral superiority of the mainstream critic, all that self-serving nonsense that merely justifies a preoccupation with the novel, freakish and other contrivances used to escape meaninglessness and boredom.

Breaking taboos has become pedestrian. It was shocking in the 1920s, now it’s big business. Look at the Madonna money machine. Do you really believe Serrano and Ofili are any different?

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By: Cynthia Curran https://www.aoiusa.org/islam-and-the-closing-of-the-secular-mind/#comment-26009 Sun, 23 Sep 2012 17:29:40 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=12220#comment-26009 Well, Steven Gregg brings some interesting points here about Pope Agapetus and Cassiodorus. Cassiodorus was writing as Steven Gregg mention in the so-called early dark ages because the western Roman Empire was no more and Italy was ruled by Theodoric and the Ostrogoths. I read some of Cassiodorus letters in translation and he was one of the few left in the west that knew both Greek and Latin. Pope Agapetus is later praise by Dante by influencing Justinian on the right view on the nature of Christ in the Inferno.

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By: Pere LaChaise https://www.aoiusa.org/islam-and-the-closing-of-the-secular-mind/#comment-26008 Sun, 23 Sep 2012 05:30:42 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=12220#comment-26008 In reply to Fr. Johannes Jacobse.

Sorry, Fr. Johan, I respectfully disagree with your article’s premise. Serrano and Offili were not panderin gto base instincts and not working to offend. I personally saw Offili’s piece in Brooklyn and it cannot be called offensive in the way you caricature it. It’s a rather unimpressive artifact deriving from the artist’s native South African sensibilities and neither terribly gross nor the lease bit pornographic. Nor was Serrano aiming to insult. He’s a Catholic Philipino and is sincere. His image is neither gross nor offensive.
The fallacy of your argument is in conflating artwork with brutal violence of the atheistic Bolshevik type. Just saying so doesn’t make it a fact. By juxtaposing controversial artworks dealing in religious imagery with overt anti-religious violence, you hope to equate artmaking with Bolshevism as a putsch against faith.
Sorry, Father, but I disagree with your premise– not on some vague foundation of ‘free speech’ but by the basis of intent: such artmaking is not mere derogation aimed at depriving me of access to the sacred, but instead confronts me with sacred images of Christ and His Ever-Virgin Mother complexified through the lens of a society which largely rejects their sacred intent and content. Offili tried (lamely, IMHO) to emphasize the earthliness of the Holy Virgin Mary’s motherhood and feminity, and Serrano tried (much more successfully) to reinvest the trivialized, miniature dime-store plastic crucifix with its original mystery and sorrow. I am sad that you missed the overwhelming point he made.
The fact that politicians of dubious faith and spirituality made such hey railing against Serrano and Offili – and Mapplethorpe too – speaks more to your point about religion as a weapon for powerful men to grasp and wield to their own benefit, than to art as a political weapon against ‘conservative’ faith. Art is not a religion like atheism. Its workers manipulate images in order to enter a fresh, innocent dialog with them in the context of society – often when society wishes they would shut up. Serrano touched a nerve in a time of political backlash against liberal mores and his work alludes to persecution and paranoia. A good piece of art, like his Crucifixis irreduceable, as the complexity it brings to the viewer cannot be fully resolved through any other media than the image he presents. It remains ambiguous, and I think that is what continues to offend.

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By: Cynthia Curran https://www.aoiusa.org/islam-and-the-closing-of-the-secular-mind/#comment-26007 Sat, 22 Sep 2012 17:58:44 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=12220#comment-26007 Well, I agree with George on this and some of the followers of Islam want to punished disrespect with death its like Eastern Orthodoxy going back to the iconoclastic era where you were imprison or put to death for an icon. What I don’t understand about the left is how they can be supported of Islam since Islam Sharia is very medieval and wants to punish people for adultery, homosexuality and so forth with the death penalty while they have a fit over Evangelical Protestants and Conservative Roman Catholics for wanting to ban abortion or opposed gay marriage is certainly not the extreme that some followers of Islam proposed.

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By: Fr. Johannes Jacobse https://www.aoiusa.org/islam-and-the-closing-of-the-secular-mind/#comment-26002 Sat, 22 Sep 2012 13:13:33 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=12220#comment-26002 In reply to Pere LaChaise.

Never meant anything offensive? Are you sure it’s all so benign? Here’s an essay I wrote on it at the time.

The Artist as Vandal: Culture and the desecration of religious symbols

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By: Pere LaChaise https://www.aoiusa.org/islam-and-the-closing-of-the-secular-mind/#comment-26000 Sat, 22 Sep 2012 06:50:28 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=12220#comment-26000 George,
The irony of you choice of the word “humiliate” in regards to works of art from the 80s that you don’t like or understand shows you need to read a little bit more in the tradition of which you are such a proud ‘sponsor’, as well as art criticism. No ‘bad boy’ artist can humiliate our Crucified and Risen Lord; He has condescended to our uttermost contempt and thereby saves us. Neither Serrano nor Offili even meant anything offensive (tho can’t say that for Mapplethorpe). And probably those pundits were still in college when the Moral Majority was out trying to defund public art in America.

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By: Geo Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/islam-and-the-closing-of-the-secular-mind/#comment-25998 Sat, 22 Sep 2012 03:14:31 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=12220#comment-25998 I especially like to watch all the Liberals on MSNBC talk about their new-found reverence for Islam and why some speech should be banned. Where were these bastards during the Robert Mappelthorpe/Andres Serrano/Chris Offili controversies that humiliated Christianity? Where is the ACLU castigating MSNBC for talking about the necessity to restrict free speech? Or to take on the White House for sending armed thugs to roust a man out of his bed at 1:30 in the morning because he made a video?

They told me that if I voted for a Right-wing religious fanatic like Sarah Palin that the government would imposed censorship on people for making movies –and they were right!

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By: Orthodox Collective https://www.aoiusa.org/islam-and-the-closing-of-the-secular-mind/#comment-25977 Thu, 20 Sep 2012 23:37:23 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=12220#comment-25977 […] Sep 20th 4:36 pmclick to expand…Islam and the Closing of the Secular Mind https://www.aoiusa.org/islam-and-the-closing-of-the-secular-mind/Thursday, Sep 20th 4:42 pmclick to expand…The Words of God are Sweeter Than Honey […]

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