Comments on: If Love Has Won, Has Marriage Lost? An Orthodox Response to Obergefell v. Hodges 1

By: Recommended Reading: August 29-September 4 | Pursuing Veritas

Recommended Reading: August 29-September 4 | Pursuing Veritas — Sat, 05 Sep 2015 10:00:40 +0000

[…] If Love Has Won, Has Marriage Lost? by Vigen Guroian […]

By: Metanoia | moreorthodoxy

Metanoia | moreorthodoxy — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 02:16:42 +0000

[…] critique of the western view of marriage. Vine Guroian writes on our historical failures in ‘If Love has won, has Marriage lost?’ We as sinners HAVE to admit that these problems did not come out of a vacuum but have their roots […]

By: Fr. Johannes Jacobse

Fr. Johannes Jacobse — Mon, 27 Jul 2015 14:43:22 +0000

In reply to Christopher. Dr. Vigen Guroian is clearly one of the better informed Orthodox thinkers on marriage.

By: Christopher

Christopher — Sat, 25 Jul 2015 22:18:55 +0000

July has been very busy for me and I am just getting around to reading this. The best (by far) essay on the recent decision I have read yet. Not only is he conscious of the threat that Obergefell poses (most seem to be rather dismissive or downplaying of the threat to the Church IMO) but explains exactly why.

This is worth repeating:

“…The appointed sacraments of the Church are not exceptional (super) realities; they are not magic. Rather, they are specifications of the symbolical ontology of Creation, and they witness to the fact that humankind is created in the image of God….”

Perhaps a clergy person can explain why the response of most of the NA clergy has been in summery “don’t panic” and “don’t judge” (see Fr. Philip LeMasters post over at AF – don’t mean to single him out but it is representative of the rather insipid response by most of the clergy). In fact, I would say that in my 20 years of Orthodoxy, I have never seen such a consistent response on anything “cultural” or “political”. It gets my conspiratorial thoughts going – did the Assembly of Bishops actually agree on something and send out a directive on how the NA clergy are to respond?

” We should put our minds to welcoming this moment as an opportunity to clarify what the Church’s vision of marriage truly is. This new catechesis should be the joint endeavor of bishops, priests, and laity – of episcopal letters, sermons in parishes, and religious education at all levels. And we must begin no later than tomorrow.”

I agree, but really, the entire Church of the East has been in “survival” mode for the last 1000 years or so. At least two NA synods do not even appear to be functioning on almost any level. As Fr. Robert showed us last summer, the NA bishops can’t even deal with their own faithless clergy!

Besides, we are all “Orthodox Universalists” now, why worry about anything as trite and “temporal” as doctrine and catechisis as we are all saved in the end (or so we “hope”)… 😉

By: Of Heresy and Marital Ontology | Pseudo-Polymath

Of Heresy and Marital Ontology | Pseudo-Polymath — Fri, 17 Jul 2015 02:28:13 +0000

[…] If you study church history, you will discover that every historical Christological heresy (the nature of Christ, human, divine and such) was and often is still being recapitulated as an ecclesiastical heresy (That is to say, what is the Church?). There is a good reason for this. The reason for that is pretty obvious when it comes down to it. The body of Christ on earth (after Ascension) is in fact, the Church. So there should be no surprise that heresies (wrong notions) of “what is this called Christ” copy over to heresies of what is this same thing (Christ) here still on earth. What does this have to do with marriage? Well, for the current marital discussions we recall Paul teaches us, in marriage after some subtle instructions on how to treat with each other, that the husband is to the wife as Christ is to the Church. Furthermore that this relationship is a mystery. Now, first off, don’t get too worked up about the term “mystery”. Remember the best definition of mystery is a thing that you can’t explain very well, or at all, in words, but must experience to understand. But the connection to Christology is the same. We are discovering that these Christological hersesies? Well, they are recapitulating as “What is marriage” heresies for exactly the same reason. Fortunately, as in the prior paragraph, another author at the site linked above explains that point from the Orthodox perspective far better than I can. […]

By: Erica

Erica — Sun, 12 Jul 2015 18:52:30 +0000

Thank you for your careful consideration on these topics. I grew up in the Orthodox Church and often found the practices confusing. After some wandering my husband and I are part of the Anglican Church in North America, where he is ordained. Our beliefs now are very much aligned with the Orthodox and I am every so grateful for the Orthodox way and how it has preserved the faith of our ancestors. I believe that only through a return to orthodoxy can we respond to the needs and questions of our current culture. I look forward to your book.