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Comments on: Fr. Gregory Jensen – Canons and Guns: An Eastern Orthodox Response to a HuffPo Writer https://www.aoiusa.org/fr-gregory-jensen-canons-and-guns-an-eastern-orthodox-response-to-a-huffpo-writer/ A Research and Educational Organization that engages the cultural issues of the day within the Orthodox Christian Tradition Wed, 06 Feb 2013 00:01:50 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.3.3 By: Geo Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/fr-gregory-jensen-canons-and-guns-an-eastern-orthodox-response-to-a-huffpo-writer/#comment-26996 Wed, 06 Feb 2013 00:01:50 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=12517#comment-26996 In reply to Michael Bauman.

Excellent points all. The danger of Dunn’s arguments is the naive (dare I say blasphemous) belief that human nature can be changed, even over “decades” of legislation. Fr Jensen is right: we don’t need to do tikkun ‘olam (Hebrew for “heal the world) but the Eschaton.

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By: M. Stankovich https://www.aoiusa.org/fr-gregory-jensen-canons-and-guns-an-eastern-orthodox-response-to-a-huffpo-writer/#comment-26995 Tue, 05 Feb 2013 19:37:31 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=12517#comment-26995 I have interview literally, documented on paper, more than 1.500 absolutely forgettable male and female convicted felons who were in possession of a firearm at the time of their arrest – half of who having utilized the firearm in the commission of the crime for which they were arrested, including murder. I could count on one hand the number arrested in possession of an assault-type weapon, and they were specifically gang-related crimes, calculated & planned for, with a specific victim(s) in mind. Having recently attended a conference of the CA State Police. I learned that the AR-15 assault rifle utilized in Newtown, CT can deliver a round every 1.33 seconds – the time it takes an average adult to pull the trigger – meaning 45 rounds per minute or 12 rounds in less than 16 seconds. Dr. Dunn’s example is certainly conceivable. The police demonstrated a fully legal, mail-order attachment (less than $400) to the AR-16 that takes no technical skill whatsoever to apply, allowing it to immediately deliver 900 rounds per minute. I would note that the classic American Thompson Machine Gun maxes out at 1,200 rounds per minute. Assault weapons are virtually impossible to conceal – the hallmark of street crime – grossly expensive to purchase on the street, difficult to control, and are laden with exaggerated legal consequences for possession. My point: these weapons are not in the hands of street criminals.

The individuals who perpetrated these mass murders are anomalies of human behavior. In the context of epidemiology, this behaviour is not on the increase, it does not constitute a “trend,” a pattern, or an epidemic of behaviour. Despite the feeding frenzy as to the “common cause.” these isolated events of atrocity are so anomalistic and random that attempts to draw inference or project their “meaning” as “bellwether” or metaphor of social or societal state is foolish, unfounded, and diminishes perspective. An editorial in the New England Journal of Medicine the week after the shootings in CT pointed out that the combined total of shooting victims in Oak Creek, Aurora, Virginia Tech, Columbine, and Newtown was 95, while the FBI’s Uniform Crime Report for 2011 showed an average of 88 murders and more than 200 serious firearm injuries by firearm per day in the US.

I will say that I do not agree with Dr. Dunn’s choice of the use of the theology of oikonomia in this circumstance – and while I would guess that most, if not all, have not followed his personal blog – I appreciate the need of a father who delivered his three small children to school on the morning of the Newtown tragedy to put his thoughts to writing, tentatively, speculatively, and without the intention of necessarily being dogmatic. The commentary that he has done “a disservice to the Church’s moral witness” strikes me as rich rhetoric, but fool’s gold. The consistent theme of this particular site has been to champion the fact that “moral witness,” “moral leadership,” and “moral authority” are precisely what is missing in the church!

To conclude, It seems to me that everyone has settled on the “necessary first step” of repentance and the a return to the ascetic struggle. Yes, yes, who can disagree, who can take issue with this? And the corollary is, in the event nothing changes, it is easy enough to say, “YOU are not really committed to repenting and/or the ascetic ideal.” This is a circular symbiosis that keeps everybody busy, nobody encouraged, and indeed it will take the Eschaton to disrupt. But somewhere in my heart, I suspect the Lord will pity the servant who honestly says “No one taught me. No one showed me the way. There was no leader” while charging those He anointed, “You knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed.” (Matt 25:26)

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By: Michael Bauman https://www.aoiusa.org/fr-gregory-jensen-canons-and-guns-an-eastern-orthodox-response-to-a-huffpo-writer/#comment-26988 Tue, 05 Feb 2013 02:48:58 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=12517#comment-26988 Any one is free to not own guns and we are all called to be peacemakers. However, the US Constitution is pretty clear and there is no dogmatic reason that people, except priests, should not own guns and be trained how to use them.

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By: Fr Gregory Jensen https://www.aoiusa.org/fr-gregory-jensen-canons-and-guns-an-eastern-orthodox-response-to-a-huffpo-writer/#comment-26985 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 22:48:55 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=12517#comment-26985 Thanks for the cross post Fr Hans!

In Christ,

+FrG

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By: Chris Banescu https://www.aoiusa.org/fr-gregory-jensen-canons-and-guns-an-eastern-orthodox-response-to-a-huffpo-writer/#comment-26977 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 16:32:33 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=12517#comment-26977 Someone needs to remind David Dunn that Christ said “Blessed are the Peacemakers”, NOT “Blessed are the Pacifists.” Huge difference!

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By: Michael Bauman https://www.aoiusa.org/fr-gregory-jensen-canons-and-guns-an-eastern-orthodox-response-to-a-huffpo-writer/#comment-26975 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 15:22:45 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=12517#comment-26975 After reading Mr. Dunn’s take on homosexuality and Fr. Gregory’s summary it seems that Mr. Dunn suffers from the all to common problem of making a particular policital ideology the doctrine and theology of the Church (not party specific BTW). He suffers further, it seems, from the delusion that we can make heaven on earth by ignoring sin. Like many he has turned the concept of law around to a situation that the law is created and inforced against those who would otherwise be law-abiding rather than constraining the lawless.

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By: Orthodox Collective https://www.aoiusa.org/fr-gregory-jensen-canons-and-guns-an-eastern-orthodox-response-to-a-huffpo-writer/#comment-26972 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 13:27:30 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=12517#comment-26972 […] https://www.aoiusa.org/fr-gregory-jensen-canons-and-guns-an-eastern-orthodox-response-to-a-huffp…Monday, Feb 4th 6:04 amclick to expand… […]

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By: Acton Blog: Dunn, Oikonomia, and Assault Weapons: Misappropriating a Principle? - AOI Observer https://www.aoiusa.org/fr-gregory-jensen-canons-and-guns-an-eastern-orthodox-response-to-a-huffpo-writer/#comment-26971 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 13:15:48 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=12517#comment-26971 […] Gregory Jensen also crafted a response to Dunn that published immediately below this […]

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