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Comments on: Ecumenical Patriarch releases agenda for Mississippi Symposium https://www.aoiusa.org/ecumenical-patriarch-releases-agenda-for-mississippi-symposium/ A Research and Educational Organization that engages the cultural issues of the day within the Orthodox Christian Tradition Wed, 30 Sep 2009 02:13:43 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.3.3 By: DStall https://www.aoiusa.org/ecumenical-patriarch-releases-agenda-for-mississippi-symposium/#comment-5631 Mon, 17 Aug 2009 09:53:25 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2644#comment-5631 Chris, I agree symposiums are quite often a waste of money and time. That’s why I think the EP should focus on what He does to resist destroying the Creation as example to others, more so than symposiums. By jaunting around the globe, he only adds to pollution, rather than downsizing his own environmental footprint. Using physical warfare tactics instead of spiritual warfare (creating “embargoes” against monks who disagree with him), doesn’t set a very good personal example either for exhorting others to Spiritual Maturity, to victory in the human heart which is where the battle is occurring, inside ourselves, not “out there”. The focus on symposiums is great PR for calling attention to problems, but doesn’t seem to do much about solutions. I haven’t heard any exhortation for what the faithful can do to resist living a modern anti-Christian life that destroys Creation and have voiced that concern at The Orthodox Fellowship of the Transfiguration.

It’s the new millenium and multi-tasking is “in”. We can and should simultaneously oppose Both distortion and destruction of the human person (abortion/homosexuality), And consumerist rape of All Creation, because Both are symptoms of the same problem, “happiness-seeking” sickness. If you make abortion/homosexuality the primary problem in order to unite with Papist/Protestants (the lowest common denominator because there is no Theological Unity), then you make of Orthodoxy another worldly Religion and are dragged down into the level of spiritual “illness” along with Western christianity, which is no “cure”, and which ends up muddied in “moral issues” together with Judaism and Islam, and bloodied in physical battle.

Yes, the human person (abortion/homosexuality) takes primacy, because only humans are created in Divine image, but humans are Created and exist together with All Creation, not in a Vacuum. Distortion/destruction (unregenerate “falleness”) of the human person effects destruction of All Creation. That’s why the rest of Creation is transfigured only through human deification, and why it “groans” in anticipation of that event. To separate and make a dichotomy of human/non-human makes “pro-life” guilty of the same one-sidedness as “humanist” environmentalists. Opposition must be on both “fronts” in order to be truly Orthodox Christian. God loves “the world” and gives His Son for All Creation, not just humanity, so human Care of Creation is an expression of the Divine Image and Likeness, the human “person”. The rest of Creation can’t wait for complete cessation of human abortion. We have no Divine mandate to be “linear” (1, 2…) in “standing up for Jesus”. All Creation is created in and through the Logos, and is going down the tube just as fast as human fetuses.

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By: cynthia curran https://www.aoiusa.org/ecumenical-patriarch-releases-agenda-for-mississippi-symposium/#comment-5627 Sun, 16 Aug 2009 22:45:02 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2644#comment-5627 The global warming debate isn’t tht simple. In fact, those that are pushing more of the population into cities versus suburbs, don’t take into consideration that cities have a higher percentage of poor folks because ecnomonic opportunities are less available. Take Portland Oregon which is about 75 percent white versus Anaheim which is only about now 30 percent non-hispanic white. In Portland hispanic poverty is 21 percent. Anaheim its 17 percent. Portland Oregon has a lot of restrictions and trys to developed a more central city model while Anaheim is what is known as a boombarb-too big for a regular suburb but some features are different than the typical large town. Also, take white poverty stats, Portland has a poverty rate of 12 percent versus only 4.5 for whites in Anaheim. Portland has about a 23 percent black population and Anaheim has about 14 percent for others than hispanics or white. Liberal enviromentalists like a town like Portland but not Anaheim.

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By: Chris Banescu https://www.aoiusa.org/ecumenical-patriarch-releases-agenda-for-mississippi-symposium/#comment-5564 Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:23:28 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2644#comment-5564 DStall, I’m sure every Orthodox jurisdiction has plenty of writings that exemplify the Moral Tradition of the Church regarding the abomination known as “abortion.” No one is denying that truth. However, where is the bishops’ (besides +Jonah, +Hilarion, and a few others who continually oppose and talk about it) public witness and outspoken stand against this massive evil currently being promoted and embraced by too many Orthodox faithful, especially the young adults who hear little from the pulpit or the official church statements and channels that informs them of the Truth?

The defense of the unborn (the most innocent and defenseless of God’s creation) is a moral absolute and must be a priority, ahead of saving the whales, the rain forests, and the polar bears. Nothing wrong with caring for all of creation and being passionate about green issues, IF and that’s a big if, we have already done everything possible to defend the innocent first!

How about caring about saving the environment in the womb? This message needs to be shouted from the rooftops and continually broadcast from the pulpit. There is something terribly wrong with our hierarchy when millions are spent on Mississippi symposiums that declare: “the fate of the Mississippi waters is more than one aspect of global warming. It is also, very acutely, an ethical crisis.” and abortion, an ethical issue 1,000,000 times more serious and morally important, is virtually ignored by the very same Orthodox leaders.

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By: Andrew https://www.aoiusa.org/ecumenical-patriarch-releases-agenda-for-mississippi-symposium/#comment-4850 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:47:45 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2644#comment-4850 This recent article is a wonderful example of how the debate on Global Warming is Shifting.

The Climate Change Climate Change
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124597505076157449.html

If some don’t watch out the whole Green Patriarch scheme could explore in the face of the Phanar and make the successor of St. Andrew look like a bufooon.

Too late now though…. the EP’s leftist love-boat is preparing to motor down the mississippi.

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By: George Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/ecumenical-patriarch-releases-agenda-for-mississippi-symposium/#comment-4819 Wed, 01 Jul 2009 00:06:12 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2644#comment-4819 Chrys, excellent point. I would never presume to go to another country (even if I were a signficant personage) and presume to tell them what to do, what is wrong, what needs to change, or claim “patronage” over a geological formation.

The more I think about it, it’s a disgrace. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail at the GOA but they’re too used to panting after the limelight over there (and at the Phanar).

I fear all of Orthodoxy will be shamed by this spectacle. I pray I’m wrong. I’ll be glad to be wrong.

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By: Chrys https://www.aoiusa.org/ecumenical-patriarch-releases-agenda-for-mississippi-symposium/#comment-4818 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 23:05:25 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2644#comment-4818 While I am delighted that the EP will be coming to America, I wonder: how many times has he been here? I recognize that he seems to see it as his mission to bring a theological perspective to environmental issues, but is this the most pressing spiritual issue we face in America? Good stewardship is certainly important; we are suffering from a surfeit of consumption that exposes the self-centered focus of our lives, but I would insist that true stewardship begins with your own heart, mind, body and soul. If that is not converted, what value is our wealth and enlightened policies? As noted elsewhere, what good is it if you cleanse the world but lose your soul?

I must also admit that I am bothered by the notion that someone from somewhere else, however enlightened, could possibly care more about the impact on the Mississippi than the folks who live there and whose families and futures depend upon it. (This posture has always struck me as lacking humility, though I would NOT ascribe such a failing to His All Holiness. It is, however, the basic issue that I have with academics and politicians who DO arrogantly think that their pet policy or position has more value or is more important than the perspective of people who have skin in the game. In the military, this same problem resulted in such classic acronyms as SNAFU, etc.)

While I find myself very much at odds with the focus of his message – and certainly the other folks giving the seminar – he remains the Patriarch of my jurisdiction and he certainly has my deep respect and, if required, obedience. I will admit, though, that I wish his focus and concerns were more in line with those expressed by Met. Jonah.

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By: Mark Atkins https://www.aoiusa.org/ecumenical-patriarch-releases-agenda-for-mississippi-symposium/#comment-4816 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:58:23 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2644#comment-4816 Well, if Patriarch Bartholomew wants to be seen as a spiritual leader of anything, let alone the Orthodox Church, he should act like it. More than 300 million worldwide are waiting.

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By: George Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/ecumenical-patriarch-releases-agenda-for-mississippi-symposium/#comment-4806 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:49:29 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2644#comment-4806 Greg, that’s a good question. I feel that if this symposium is of the Lord, it will profit His Church. If it is a simple publicity stunt however, it will be seen as such by the vast majority of the people in the US (GOA laymen included) and will come ultimately to naught. As such, we should pray for discernment.

Having said this, my hunch is that the EP is well meaning and that his previous symposia were done in good faith, but because the vast majority of the people are ignorant of them, that this one will likewise pass without comment in due time.

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By: GregF https://www.aoiusa.org/ecumenical-patriarch-releases-agenda-for-mississippi-symposium/#comment-4801 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 05:28:55 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2644#comment-4801 And what of the Oct 25 to Nov 5 portion of his trip?

For the EP it will be an opportunity to demonstrate either that he is the “spiritual leader of 300 million Orthodox Christians worldwide,” or that he is all about the Greeks.

For the OCA and AOCA it will be an opportunity to show respect, or snipe.

Greg

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By: George Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/ecumenical-patriarch-releases-agenda-for-mississippi-symposium/#comment-4792 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 01:31:02 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2644#comment-4792 Andrew, the size of the “carbon footprint” probably equals that of Algore’s. You know in the recent past, I’ve used the term “Gaia worship” but a lot of this approaches the excesses of the Renaissance papacy. I mean the purchasing of “carbon offsets” which allows you to have a Godzilla sized footprint as long as you pay to expiate the sin. The difference between that and indulgences is negligible.

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By: Andrew https://www.aoiusa.org/ecumenical-patriarch-releases-agenda-for-mississippi-symposium/#comment-4783 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:04:05 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2644#comment-4783 It would be interesting to calculate the total Carbon Footprint for this journey down the Mississippi. I am sure someone who is good at this could crunch some pretty solid projections.

Why not turn this lunacy against these folks?

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By: DavidS https://www.aoiusa.org/ecumenical-patriarch-releases-agenda-for-mississippi-symposium/#comment-4765 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 06:07:50 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2644#comment-4765 Tell the “tree hugging” hierarch and the NCC heretics to keep out of the South. And stop pandering to the “Left.” I’ve had it with their “agenda.”

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By: George Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/ecumenical-patriarch-releases-agenda-for-mississippi-symposium/#comment-4763 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 03:45:51 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2644#comment-4763 Chris,

as someone who never had to suffer under the Iron Curtain and its repression, I take my hat off to you. I feel that only someone who has suffered can see through the obfuscation of intellectual ideologies which may sound good in the abstract, but inevitably lead to unimaginable horrors.

Having said that, I’m afraid however that we in the West are ready for a new, softer totalitarianism, one that will nationalize our economy in ways that the old commissars never dreamed possible.

I believe that green is the new “red.” It saddens me that an Orthodox patriarch is lending his moral authority to a cause that is more faddish than scientific. This is not to say that we shouldn’t be stewards of the earth. We should. But the crisis in the world today is not financial or ecological, but moral. We have stopped believing in God and have raised other gods in His place. Lenin, Hitler, Stalin and Mao were the premier gods of the 20th century. Today I fear it is Gaia.

I would be very interested to know who is behind this symposium. This is going to cost a lot of money and the GOA doesn’t have this kind of bucks. Plus, the itinerary and speakers reveal a sophistication that is beyond the usual ham-fisted PR efforts put out by the Archons. For one thing, its Christianity quotient is minimal. Just a few lefties from the NCC/WCC axis, although they are degreed and ordained ministers, they are generals without armies. I honestly don’t know who the rest of these people are. They don’t come from the business world, therefore not the productive sector. Probably NGO types, trust-fund babies, etc. In other words, people who’ve never worked a day in their lives. So who’s behind it?

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By: Chris Banescu https://www.aoiusa.org/ecumenical-patriarch-releases-agenda-for-mississippi-symposium/#comment-4757 Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:28:03 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2644#comment-4757 Wow, what stark contrasts from two different hierarchs on the opposite sides of the Atlantic.

Metropolitan Jonah boldly stands up for truth and righteousness, and speaks with moral clarity:

“Homosexualism not only “destroys authentic masculinity, it destroys authentic womanhood.”
“Gay ideology is neither from nurture or nature… we cannot accept their lifestyle or validate their unions.”
“We must eliminate any shred of immorality in our lives,” not least because sin “kills and maims the soul… and “demoralizes our culture.”
“A culture demoralized by immorality “cannot stand up to the strict asceticism of Islam.”
“Faith… is the knowledge of the heart (that) I have died and my life is hidden in the heart of God… it is only Jesus that matters.”

While Patriarch Bartholomew further embraces the radical environmentalist-leftist agenda, with its biased and unbalanced view (borrowed from the communist propaganda machine of yesteryear) that democratic capitalistic societies continue to “abuse” and “exploit” “mother earth” and fail to respect “human rights”, with America as the chief offender. Interestingly enough, none of this criticism has been directed at the Middle East and the other communist-totalitarian regimes around the world (China, North Korea, Cuba, etc.) that are the real offenders, abusers, polluters, and persecutors we should be worried about.

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By: George Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/ecumenical-patriarch-releases-agenda-for-mississippi-symposium/#comment-4751 Sun, 28 Jun 2009 12:12:51 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=2644#comment-4751 Mark, if the Phanar had the courage of their convictions, they’d address all Americans (Greeks included) as “barbarians” since that’s what canon 28 supposedly calls us. (Actually, it just calls the non-Romans who live in Asia, Thrace, and Pontus that, but canon 28 has now been injected with steroids to include the entire world.)

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