hexaimeron:

But why torment ourselves to refute the errors of philosophers, when it is sufficient to produce their mutually contradictory books, and, as quiet spectators, to watch the war? Saint Basilius

Very well said, except that it appears to me that this is what the secular thinkers and philosophers did. They produced tons of books contradictory to the teachings of the Church and now they watch the war.

you should read

http://www.hexaimeron.ro/Hexaimeron/Facerea_en.html – How to read Genesis, fundamental principles, by Hieromonk Seraphim Rose

Are clearly explained the six days of creation and patristic exegesis. You will find many answers to your questions

Michael!

“In that sense the pre-existence of corruption in the rest of creation prior to our sin makes a lot of sense”. Sorry to say that, but since we still are in the first week of Great Lent, and this is the best time for catechisms involving Genesis, we are afraid that here might be a big mistake! If we look carefully both in Scripture and Fathers, and in the end, use sound thinking too, there was nor corruption neither death in creation prior to human – Adam and Eve – sin. Even if there was vegetarian food, fruits, leaves, a.s.o., – both humans and creatures had these as nourishment, – this doesn’t mean at all corruption and death! Everything created directly by God Himself was perfect, without corruption of any kind and at any level. Corruption and death came for sure after the original sin. Forgive us!

The fundamental idea behind evolution is this: since man is considered to come from animals, we are in their likeness. Therefore, we ought to behave like animals and become like animals. So,we became thoughtless, reckless and indifferent about our salvation as the lower animals.

The unique word of God does not morph from one thing into another. Clearly, also, is the different process that God uses in the creation of human beings. We are set apart. Only we are made for communion with each other and with God.

Any statement of evolution that does not recognize these unambiguous realities is flawed.

Clearly, too, God’s word is not static, resisted or limited in time.

Also any statement on evolution that does not fully take into account the difference (ontologically and physically) that our entrance into sin caused, is flawed. We descended toward the animal rather than asending toward God. In that sense the pre-existence of corruption in the rest of creation prior to our sin makes a lot of sense. Although there is one question: originally even the animals were given plants to eat, not each other. What does that say about the nature of the creation pre-fall and post fall?

Let us wait for the people here to notice this discussion. They are now busy with the latest event in the Orthodox Church in America concerning His Beatitude, Metropolitan JONAH. I believe it is better and more interesting to discuss it here than through e-mails.

Eliot,

We answer you here because we don’t have your mail yet. But until then, this goes also for everybody interested in such important issues:

ABOUT SITE Hexaimeron.ro (http://www.hexaimeron.ro/Contact/Contact.html)

The purpose of this site is to present and update the Church’s teaching reflected in the Holy Scripture and the interpretation of the Holy Fathers, related to creation of the world. The word “Hexaimeron” (Ή Έξαήερον) is greek, “hexa” means “six” and “imeron” means “days” and refers to those days described in Genesis Chapter I of the book. The first Christian writer who used this term was Theophilos of Antioch, but the one who gave consistency to it was Saint Basilius the Great.

This site is a theological one, an Orthodox Christian. It furthermore contains elements of ancient astronomy and some scientific research in the contemporary creationism. The basic idea we want to convey is this: We believe and confess that the creation of the world: cosmos, life, man, it is a MYSTERY and a MIRACLE. It is Mystery as is direct work of God and Miracle since it is not a natural and normal repeatable phenomenon, but something supernatural and unique. It can not be searched otherwise than through the natural and supernatural revelation.

Broadly speaking, the “natural” revelation means the activity of the ancient pagan wise men before Christ, who, though not being in the prophets revealed Law, however, had indirect access to knowledge of the truth, trough the skills included in their hearts. It’s about human efforts which trough the contemplation of nature can somehow reach the Creator. Here we can put the wisdom of the ancient Greeks, like Plato and Aristotle, who took teachings about natural sciences from Moses and the Egyptians. The Fathers of the Church have kept from those almost entirely the cosmology, the composition of the cosmos, celestial mechanics, etc. The model taken further by The Church was that of a limited spherical universe whose center is a stationary Earth around which everything revolves: the seven planets and stars.

The supernatural revelation is coming from God to man, it is straightforward and is made from the beginning to the prophets, among whom we have shining in the highest rank Moses. It is contained in the Holy Scripture not only in the book of Genesis but also in many other places. This scriptural revelation of the Holy Spirit was interpreted by the Holy Fathers inspired by the same Spirit and is the supreme unerring knowledge, unchanged and true in all the places and times. It can not be dependent on “knowledge of science/technical” of a particular era.

Here we meet a radical contrast to the ancient cosmology related concepts namely: How did the universe, life and man appear. Here The Church rejected the errors of the ancients: polytheism, eternal matter, etc., and combined the cosmogony of the Scripture with the ancient geocentric cosmology. This teaching lasted virtually unchanged for thousands of years. Based on that it was developed also that liturgical framework of the Church: the church calendar. This teaching began to be challenged and amended in western Catholic and Protestant area starting with the 16th century. A great part of the modern science, which occurred after that date until today, is in manifest contradiction with the revelation, reaching a completely different cosmogony, cosmology, anthropology and biology. Astrophysics and biology, taught in schools in the last hundred years, are deeply imbued with an atheistic and evolutionistic, antichristic and antichurch vision.

At the end of last century, in the same Catholic and (neo) Protestant Western area arouse several scientific efforts to return to a “natural” revelation harmonized with the traditional teaching of the Church. Such trends have emerged in the schools of creationism and modern geocentricism.

In our orthodox area the first who took a similar task in regard to the question of “creationism” was Father Seraphim Rose. Going after his pioneering work, other Orthodox creationists/antievolutionists emerged, including in our country (Romania). Following this upbringing and very useful example, we thought it appropriate to continue this work especially with the cosmological issues, bringing back to light this invaluable treasure of knowledge, buried under thick mud and almost unknown in all environments, including the monastic one. It is obvious that helio/acentrism is the greatest deception present, including people of all confessions, religions, ages and cultural levels! So it will be very hard to dispel it, we will face more opposition and scandal, but also souls to be won!

Being a pioneer work in the orthodox area, it contains certainly gaps and possible errors, for which we ask for understanding and straightening with love. Please pray for the people who did this work and let us give glory to God for His deed and the fact that He takes care that we should hear about it, despite many obstacles!

Fr. Dan Bădulescu

CONTACT

If you have a question about one of the topics do not hesitate to send us your opinion on e-mail. The answers are in the FAQs menu grouped by areas addressed .
Hexaimeron.ro is an independent project, created and maintained by some volunteers. We wish to generate a free dialog, conscious and argued on the origin of cosmos and life on Earth, a debate with scientific, logical and theological arguments.

E-mail: contact@hexaimeron.ro

hexaimeron: I did not read the entire site, but it seems to be the largest collection on this subject I’ve seen so far. You certainly do not have to translate Fr. Seraphim Rose from Romanian back into English. The original version should be readily available here. However, I do not think that everything is available online. What article/book(s) are you looking for?

I am going to explore a little bit more the links you provided. I do not think I have the ability, time and energy to help you much, but indeed, glory to God Almighty!. It is a miracle that Christianity is still around after long and repeated persecutions against Christians and the rise of various heresies.

> About a year ago I wrote a comment on this subject:
> https://www.aoiusa.org/2009/12/green-patriarch-on-copenhagen/
>

Rather than admitting the possibility that the earth was stationary with respect to the ether, scientists dispensed the ether. Michelson-Morley experiment showed that the earth was stationary (or at lest this is a posibility). In order to avoid having to adopt this results Einstein comes up with the postulate: “speed of light is constant in all reference frames”. Special Relativity claims that the speed of light is the only constant in the universe, whereas mass, length, distance, and time became relative. What we have is a system of mathematical formulae which doesn’t explain much of how things work BUT because of Relativity (its postulates), no one can prove whether the sun goes around the earth or the earth goes around the sun.

>
>>
> Thank you for your appreciation! We guess that you are using something like “Google translate” machine to read this Romanian site. There is such thing also in your forum, we thought too if it would be an idea to put something like this too on our site. The problem is that the result can look quite tricky, but, anyway, it’s better than nothing! To translate “manually” all the site means a lot of work and time, and we, as you can guess! are not many, and take no money for this! Something could be done, but, for instance, we can not translate Fr. Seraphim in English! Instead we need the original of that material from site…. Maybe we can get a little help from our American friends! Also suggestions for translation improvement? Obviously, this goes only for the Romanian articles and studies translated in English.

That nonsense and similar ones (like the big bang theory) are perpetrated by the “great” physicists from “major” universities. I feel defeated … Wouldn’t it be a waste of time to fight it back?

Well, as Saint Basilius said:

“And do not let any one compare with the inquisitive discussions of philosophers upon the heavens, the simple and inartificial character of the utterances of the Spirit; as the beauty of chaste women surpasses that of a harlot, [1510] so our arguments are superior to those of our opponents. They only seek to persuade by forced reasoning. With us truth presents itself naked and without artifice. But why torment ourselves to refute the errors of philosophers, when it is sufficient to produce their mutually contradictory books, and, as quiet spectators, to watch the war? [1511] For those thinkers are not less numerous, nor less celebrated, nor more sober in speech in fighting their adversaries, who say that the universe is being consumed by fire, and that from the seeds which remain in the ashes of the burnt world all is being brought to life again. Hence in the world there is destruction and palingenesis to infinity. [1512] All, equally far from the truth, find each on their side by-ways which lead them to error.” http://www.elpenor.org/basil/hexaemeron.asp?pg=29

You can see such an example in this material http://www.vimeo.com/19807459 that refute scientifically the big bang theory….

We really are not sure either if we must fight on the science area and with scientific weapons.If someone doesn’t believe the Scripture and the Fathers there is very little hope… but, who really knows? The mercy of God is infinite and His ways unknown! So, we can confess and teach the revealed truth and then wait and see were are the results. And, look, glory to God Almighty, there are results, as you there! We also, here in Romania, took great help from Father Seraphim, and now we try to follow him, with our humble capacities and God’s help…

hexaimeron: I believe that Michelson–Morley experiment performed in 1887 proved that the Earth does not move. Instead, a wrong conclusions was drawn on purpose. The ether was proved to exist but such papers do not get published.
About a year ago I wrote a comment on this subject:
https://www.aoiusa.org/2009/12/green-patriarch-on-copenhagen/

Rather than admitting the possibility that the earth was stationary with respect to the ether, scientists dispensed the ether. Michelson-Morley experiment showed that the earth was stationary (or at lest this is a posibility). In order to avoid having to adopt this results Einstein comes up with the postulate: “speed of light is constant in all reference frames”. Special Relativity claims that the speed of light is the only constant in the universe, whereas mass, length, distance, and time became relative. What we have is a system of mathematical formulae which doesn’t explain much of how things work BUT because of Relativity (its postulates), no one can prove whether the sun goes around the earth or the earth goes around the sun.

That nonsense and similar ones (like the big bang theory) are perpetrated by the “great” physicists from “major” universities. I feel defeated … Wouldn’t it be a waste of time to fight it back? Anyway, your work is impressive!

Lucky and Eliot Ryan,

We are glad that you find our work interesting and useful. There are some translations on the issue at these locations:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/41541401/The-size-of-the-Universe-in-the-view-of-the-Church-Cosmology

http://www.scribd.com/doc/42924909/Reflections-Concerning-a-Recent-Article

http://www.scribd.com/doc/35663771/Five-Geocentric-Celestial-Wonders

http://www.scribd.com/doc/39837349/The-Divine-and-Humane-Cosmology

http://www.scribd.com/doc/37785026/ST-JOHN-OF-DAMASCUS-Concerning-the-Heaven

http://www.scribd.com/doc/37041571/St-Victorinus-of-Pettau-Creation-of-the-world

http://www.scribd.com/doc/36508429/How-to-Read-Genesis

http://www.scribd.com/doc/11573472/The-Consensus-of-Church-Fathers-on-Geocentrism-

If you, ore anyone else in this forum, feel like this worthy to continue, welcome to contact us here: contact@hexaimeron.ro.

And even more: these translations are not the best possible, suggestions of improvement are wellcome!