I hate to blubber on (but I will), but I have to admit that my eyes have been sort of opened with all of the EP+ talk regarding the administrative, chess game being played throughout Orthodoxy.

In the end of the interview, His Grace, Archbishop Jovan+ gave an ad hoc “shout out” to the EP+ and praised him for his “Green Patriarch” label. He also downplayed the ROC in light of the current situation, stating that the MOC has 5 Archbishops that would deny Macedonian Autocephaly hence the need to deny the name, while the ROC has no one that would hinder their pronouncment of Ukrainian Autocephaly. Couple these statements with what I have heard/read Jovan+ state numerous times that he considers himself to be Byzantine(Roman) and I think that perhaps he may be one of the “pawns” in the EP+ Chess game. Just I hunch, could be wrong. But I tend to agree more with Alexanders and Isa’s commentary regarding the situation in Macedonia.

later in the interview he says that the ROC has several autonomous churches under the Patriarchate that they will never grant autocephaly to; and that there is no difference, at all, between autonomy and autocephaly other than some minute financial autonomies.

Interesting tid bit. The intire interview, Jovan+ born in Bitola, Macedonia, alludes to the “artificialness” of the Macedonian identity, that ethnophyletism seems the culprit in the make-up of the Church, and that he considers himself a Byzantine(Roman/Romej), not Macedonian. He also starts off the interview by talking about how great he was treated in prison by the other prisoners and the guards. Sort of a twist as to how it was all depicted on the news and “other sources.:

The interview can be found here: http://www.poa-info.org/video
Fifth video down. In Macedonian, so it may be worthless to most.

Samn! it’ll happen if nnd only if +Kirill wants it to happen. Keep your eye on his eparchies in North America and Europe, particularly events in Great Britain, the MP-USA, and ROCOR (probably the OCA and the Slavic jurisdictions in America as well).

http://www.la-croix.com/article/index.jsp?docId=2441263&rubId=4078

Loud and clear. My apologies for ramshacking the thread.

That, my friend, like the Star of Vergina and the million other debates over history and symbols, is an issue between Macedonia/FRYM, and Greece, a EU member country.

or as Rush calls it, “Al-Reuters.”

Question: They why not just call us Macedonian instead of FYRM?

In anycase, with crooks like these deciding what my identity is, it is difficult to imagine anything other than the finger of God helping us:

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/81351

Personally, I would like to see a solution between the SOC/MOC and only them, but what is stopping the MOC diasopra (hate this word) in North America from seeking shelter in the OCA?

Answer: Moscow

Finally, why would Macedonians have to run the gauntlet of sociologists, psychatrists, psychologists to garner approval of their identity? Is is an international standard or norm for all nations?

Response: I did not mean to suggest that the residents and citizens of the FYRM needed to run such a gauntlet. They don’t. As you well know, identity politics in FRYM, elsewhere in the Balkans, and just generally elsewhere, is such a touchy subject. How an ethnicity, nationality or even race these days (even historically) are defined and understood are laden with all sorts of assumptions and agendas. (For one stupid example, in the USA, it is a veritable science project to define someone as a member of a Native American tribe so they can run a casino. Come on.)

But, in an Orthodox context, I remain completely and utterly perplexed why “ethnicity,” “nationality,” or “race” are ever a “canonical” issue, consideration or subject of discussion. Hence the “sin” of phyletism. The question should simply be, “are you Orthodox?” And if you happen to live in Blackacre, so and so is your bishop. And if you happen to live in Whiteacre, this other guy is.

Most of those monks at Decani “get it.” Neo-fascists like Artemis, Amphilochicus, Basil (Tuzla), Photius and others of thier ilk in the SOC do not. And the purely political games being played in the Kosovo diocese these days are morally reprehensible – by Artemis and his supporters, his detractors, and his ecclesiastical prosecutors, alike.

The analytical contortions — and lies — over history and canons that advocate any ecclesiological super-structure beyond a defined diocese are mind-numbing.

In the end, which bishops to sit together in a synod can — and should — be much more fluid than it is. As best I can tell, and I’m no theologian, Orthodoxy has not for centuries been consumed by any fundamental theological or “dogmatic” dispute; it is all administrative and practical. I’m no canonist, but I think all you need is three to make a synod. Super-diocesan structures at best hope to provide “interim” conciliar accountabilty.

No one in their right mind can say that any debate about which Orthodox Patriarchate, Archbishopric, Metropolitanate, or “Autonomous Church” has jurisdiction over a given piece of real estate has ever been: “let me be responsible for the real work saving these peoples’ souls. No me. NO ME.”

It has always been about something that has precious little to do with why Christ was incarnate and died for all of us.

Sorry if this appears to be a diatribe. It is not intended as one.

I guess what I’m trying to say that we’re talking about a period where nationalism as we know it today was yet unknown. Many Macedonians at that time would identify with a particular regional Church jurisdiction. We won’t get into the catechcism classes set up by the various jurisdiction. My Grandfather who was born in Macedonia in 1901 had some really neat stories, pending upon whose control Macedonia was under-in one part of his childhood he’d attend a school under the Bulgarian Church ‘regime’ and he’d have to learn about what a wonderful Bulgarian Orthodox boy he was, and then when the Serbs took over, he’d have to unlearn the Bulgarian and become a Serb. Which is funny since I’ve never heard him utter a word in anything other than the modern Macedonian language, nor claim to be anything other than Macedonia. I guess the schools didn’t work. Perhaps if they had taught him some Liturgical or Bible lessons, he could have become a Priest since that was what he was slated to do being the only one in his village that could read?

He is easily substantiated. Something that cannot be said for his Hellenic detractors.

I don’t believe either. But we’re talking about the ROC and the EP+. If they don’t want it done… I guess we pray.

Serbian Orthodox Church and political leaders gather on Sunday to enthrone a new patriarch to guide a religion embodying the spirit of Serbia, but the once a generation ceremony will take place on foreign soil

No, it doesn’t.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_independence_precedent

BTW – Based upon what I have seen, I wouldn’t place all my money on Richard von Mach as historian for that time period.