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Comments on: Cardinal Levada: Union with the Catholic Church is the goal of ecumenism https://www.aoiusa.org/cardinal-levada-%e2%80%98union-with-the-catholic-church-is-the-goal-of-ecumenism%e2%80%99/ A Research and Educational Organization that engages the cultural issues of the day within the Orthodox Christian Tradition Thu, 11 Mar 2010 15:59:18 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.3.3 By: Eliot Ryan https://www.aoiusa.org/cardinal-levada-%e2%80%98union-with-the-catholic-church-is-the-goal-of-ecumenism%e2%80%99/#comment-9731 Thu, 11 Mar 2010 15:59:18 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=6066#comment-9731 In reply to George Michalopulos.

The people who seek the truth –Muslims, Protestants, etc.–cry out for leadership, not diplomacy.

George, very well said! Political opportunism, schismatic political intrigues and relativism is the history and nature of Rome. We do not need any of that even it is called “diplomacy”.

Muslims are coming into churches explaining that they have already converted and now need a Bible and guidance on how to follow Jesus. Who can guide them?

Orthodox leadership today requires courage and faith in God, the maker of heaven and earth not faith in the rulers of this world and the reason of fallen man.

The Right Reverend Mitered Archimandrite Dr. Andrew (Vujisić)does seem to have the clarity other leaders lack. Praise the Lord! In his talks with the clergy and faithful of the ICOG he spoke at length about:

matters related to the Orthodox faith, especially the importance of the development of an Orthodox phronema, praxis, and liturgical life.

the importance of formulating an Orthodox worldview through prayer, fasting, repentance, struggle against sin and overcoming the passions, participation in the Holy Mysteries, and the reading the Holy Scriptures and the writings of the Holy Fathers

the straight and narrow path of reception into Orthodoxy

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By: Scott Pennington https://www.aoiusa.org/cardinal-levada-%e2%80%98union-with-the-catholic-church-is-the-goal-of-ecumenism%e2%80%99/#comment-9714 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 17:48:29 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=6066#comment-9714 In reply to Greg.

“Were the speech given to the Orthodox the phrase ‘union with the Catholic Church is the goal of ecumenism’ might have been said differently, or at least been given a different sense . . .”

Yes, they are quite good at speaking Clintonese. I too though am always refreshed when I hear a Catholic speak accurately and frankly about the nature of the “one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church”; i.e., it is one visible communion. We differ on the locus of that Church but at least this cardinal, at this moment, seems to be speaking in traditional terms. It is of some comfort to some Orthodox that the present Pope sees us as “churches” but defective in our lack of submission to Rome. This, instead should be a cause for alarm. The RCC is beginning to sound like the Anglicans when it comes to branches of the Church. Same deal with their allowing Orthodox and non-Chalcedonians to commune in RCC churches if they approach. Poor ecclesiology does not help the situation.

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By: George Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/cardinal-levada-%e2%80%98union-with-the-catholic-church-is-the-goal-of-ecumenism%e2%80%99/#comment-9713 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 17:37:34 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=6066#comment-9713 In reply to Eliot Ryan.

Eliiot, you speak correctly. IMHO, the EP trods dangerous territory when he upholds Islam and/or ecumenism. I’m not saying that one should not be polite and courteous, but we must dare to paint with bold colors, not “pale pastels.” The people who seek the truth –Muslims, Protestants, etc.–cry out for leadership, not diplomacy. The Orthodox bishops would do well to stop, take stock of the current state of affairs, and pare back most all ecumenical/interfaith dialogue. Any more some such endeavors risks us losing what we have gained so far. I’m speaking specifically about the Guatemalan mission. These people are not fools: they are joining a Church in the expectation that it is true to the Christian moral tradition. If anyone is misrepresenting anything, then they will take their semi-autonomy and go elsewhere.

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By: Eliot Ryan https://www.aoiusa.org/cardinal-levada-%e2%80%98union-with-the-catholic-church-is-the-goal-of-ecumenism%e2%80%99/#comment-9703 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:47:41 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=6066#comment-9703 In reply to Greg.

Cardinal Levada then compared the reception of Anglican communities into the Catholic Church to the addition of an instrument to an orchestra.

Can we compare the Catholic orchestra to the straight and narrow path of reception into Orthodoxy?

When they’ll succeed to gather together under their umbrella all their offspring (Protestantism, Lutheranism, Baptism, Evangelicalism and all other “isms”) we can talk with them about unity.

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By: Greg https://www.aoiusa.org/cardinal-levada-%e2%80%98union-with-the-catholic-church-is-the-goal-of-ecumenism%e2%80%99/#comment-9692 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 06:50:57 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=6066#comment-9692 It might be worthwhile to point out the obvious here. This speech was given to the Anglicans, not the Orthodox.

Were the speech given to the Orthodox the phrase “union with the Catholic Church is the goal of ecumenism” might have been said differently, or at least been given a different sense since, from the Catholic perspective – and unlike the Anglicans – Catholic and Orthodox are historically “linked in a brotherly union of faith and sacramental life.”

According to Catholics, Anglicans do not have valid sacraments. Thus, the coming together of Catholics and Anglicans is of a different nature than the hoped for union with the Orthodox since, again from a Catholic point of view, the Orthodox “possess true sacraments and above all, by apostolic succession, the priesthood and the Eucharist, whereby they are linked with us in closest intimacy.”

Just a thought.

Source: Unitatis Redintegratio

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By: Eliot Ryan https://www.aoiusa.org/cardinal-levada-%e2%80%98union-with-the-catholic-church-is-the-goal-of-ecumenism%e2%80%99/#comment-9685 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 03:12:34 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=6066#comment-9685 In previous centuries, Orthodoxy publicly declared that Catholics are heretics who have fallen away from the Church. Christ founded the Church and those who dare to add anything to His teachings and the teachings of His Apostles fall away from the Church. The Church is One, it was never divided. Individuals, groups or communities fall away from the Church. The most guilty are those in their hierarchy, because they have chosen heresy with full knowledge and after due reflection.

Those who invite us to unite with the heretics fall away from the Church. The pretext is that “we must stand together in front of the impending threat of universal secularization and Islamisation”. Perhaps kissing the Koran and calling it “holy” incidents came out of fear of Islamisation.

The One enthroned in heaven laughs;
the Lord scoffs at them.

Christian missionaries to the Muslim world and converts to Christianity from Islam are facing severe persecution around the globe (see:Persecution Harder Among Muslims Who Convert to Christianity, But Saved Souls Bring Great Joy to Believers)

Many are murdered, shot dead, burned dead, beaten, kidnapped, lose their houses, lose their children and their families. But their blood is becoming the seed of the church and millions of million Muslims are converting to Christianity day by day.

We live in “interesting times”…. Millions of Muslims are converting to Christianity while our “christian brothers or fathers” are mocking God and the Truth by calling the Koran “holy”.

I believe it is time to make up our minds and stop this beyond ridiculous circus.

Blessed is the man
who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked
or stand in the way of sinners
or sit in the seat of mockers.

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By: Isa Almisry https://www.aoiusa.org/cardinal-levada-%e2%80%98union-with-the-catholic-church-is-the-goal-of-ecumenism%e2%80%99/#comment-9680 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 02:00:37 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=6066#comment-9680 At least he is honest. Misguided-Rome should be reconciled to the Othodox Catholic Faith-but honest.

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