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Comments on: Bp. Michael (OCA) Defends Traditional Marriage https://www.aoiusa.org/bp-michael-oca-defends-traditional-marriage/ A Research and Educational Organization that engages the cultural issues of the day within the Orthodox Christian Tradition Sat, 06 Aug 2011 16:51:52 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.3.3 By: Orthodox Bishops Must Speak Out Against the Homosexual Agenda | OrthodoxNet.com Blog https://www.aoiusa.org/bp-michael-oca-defends-traditional-marriage/#comment-21130 Sat, 06 Aug 2011 16:51:52 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=10178#comment-21130 […] to Bp. Nathaniel, Bp. Michael, and Met. Jonah who have taken on this difficult issue in these confused times with pastoral […]

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By: — Monomakhos https://www.aoiusa.org/bp-michael-oca-defends-traditional-marriage/#comment-21057 Thu, 04 Aug 2011 00:05:47 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=10178#comment-21057 […] to Bp. Nathaniel, Bp. Michael, and Met. Jonah who have taken on this difficult issue in these confused times with pastoral […]

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By: Fr. Johannes Jacobse https://www.aoiusa.org/bp-michael-oca-defends-traditional-marriage/#comment-20635 Sat, 02 Jul 2011 00:27:25 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=10178#comment-20635 In reply to Michael Bauman.

Michael, it’s a start, it really is. I don’t don’t think it ends here. We are not the only people frustrated with the lack of moral leadership.

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By: Michael Bauman https://www.aoiusa.org/bp-michael-oca-defends-traditional-marriage/#comment-20632 Fri, 01 Jul 2011 17:15:07 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=10178#comment-20632 In reply to Fr. Johannes Jacobse.

Father, I’ll give the statement from which he is quoting (from 1992) its just due. I disagree strongly that +Michael’s statement is a start at all, irrespective of what is happening to Met. Jonah. The statement in 1992 was a start. Its apparently been on permanent pause ever since. It means less than nothing until there is actual action similar to the type Hieromonk Mark suggested on the CDC thread.

What is he doing in his diocese to build and strengthen Orthodox practice and belief at the lay level? What is he doing to strengthen and support the priest under him to carry out there pastoral and teaching role regarding the faith (not general theology, but in matters such as the homosexual situation)? Are they able and willing to proactive teach and minister in these areas or are they too afraid or unprepared or worse in disagreement with the principals of the Synodal statement and the teachings of the Church?

Way too easy, especially after the fact, to say ‘piously’ that the action was wrong, but frankly, so what? What was done in the New York parishes prior to the action? I’d guess absolutely nothing. That’s either apathy or cowardice.

I can understand not wanting to get involved in the public political debates, but that is no reason that there cannot be strong, unequivocable teaching at the parish level at every opportunity. If folks don’t like it, they have two options: change or leave. Unfortunately, many will attempt the ‘third way’, i.e, the overhaul of Church teachings to match the degradation of the culture. That should not be tolerated.

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By: Harry Coin https://www.aoiusa.org/bp-michael-oca-defends-traditional-marriage/#comment-20629 Thu, 30 Jun 2011 02:07:16 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=10178#comment-20629 In reply to Harry Coin.

Call for articles:

The Church’s Obligation to the Dependents (wife / children) of POOEs — ‘Previously Overlooked Ordination Errors’.

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By: Harry Coin https://www.aoiusa.org/bp-michael-oca-defends-traditional-marriage/#comment-20628 Thu, 30 Jun 2011 01:25:16 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=10178#comment-20628 In reply to Fr. Johannes Jacobse.

The only moral clarity visibly affirmed follows from just one thing, synonymous in that world: disobedience / disloyalty. To whom does a Christian owe obedience and loyalty first?

‘Obedience to wrongdoing is disobedience to Christ’ – G. Diogenes Jones.

Now I challenge those who are shocked at this clergy misconduct and the obvious overlooking of it for so many years: what of the priest’s family? What of their future?

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By: John Panos https://www.aoiusa.org/bp-michael-oca-defends-traditional-marriage/#comment-20626 Wed, 29 Jun 2011 15:38:17 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=10178#comment-20626 In reply to George Michalopulos.

Wait, shoudn’t he have asked permission of the Synod, or at LEAST the Metropolitan Council, before making any public proclamation of any kind?

Oh wait, I forgot – he isn’t Jonah.

Good Job, Bishop Michael.

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By: Fr. Johannes Jacobse https://www.aoiusa.org/bp-michael-oca-defends-traditional-marriage/#comment-20625 Wed, 29 Jun 2011 15:16:31 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=10178#comment-20625 In reply to Michael Bauman.

Michael it’s a start. And given the attacks on Met. Jonah recently for his unequivocal defense of the moral tradition, it’s courageous too.

Every church is afflicted with homosexuality in some way or another. We either deal with it or we don’t. The Catholics for example, were forced to deal with it because of the pedophile scandal. The Episcopalians gave themselves over to it. Our time is coming (actually it is already here, we just don’t want to admit it yet).

The way to begin dealing with it is to be clear about what the moral tradition teaches. Bp. Michael is doing that as is Met. Jonah. The only other recent and unequivocal voice was Met. Isaiah (Met. Isaiah speaks out against same-sex marriage).

Give the man the credit that is due, even if more should be done.

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By: Dn Brian Patrick Mitchell https://www.aoiusa.org/bp-michael-oca-defends-traditional-marriage/#comment-20624 Wed, 29 Jun 2011 14:31:46 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=10178#comment-20624 In reply to Michael Bauman.

It’s not nothing, but as Michael says, it’s not nearly enough. What are we going to do about the gay marriages in our midst? How long will we scandalize the faithful by allowing the openly faithless to “eat and drink damnation” to themselves?

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By: Fr. Johannes Jacobse https://www.aoiusa.org/bp-michael-oca-defends-traditional-marriage/#comment-20623 Wed, 29 Jun 2011 14:07:38 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=10178#comment-20623 In reply to Harry Coin.

It’s hard to comprehend the depth of the compulsion driving this priest. I hope the man finds healing but the road back is going to be difficult considering how far he traveled down it.

Still, the obtuse response about illegal and unethical behavior shows something is seriously wrong. It’s defensive. There is no moral clarity. What does it say to the priest caught up in these sins and the parish reeling from the revelations of his behavior? Not much.

Secondly, why did it take a group of laypeople hiring a lawyer to bring the actions of a troubled priest to light? Hiring private investigators is an extreme response but in this case it appears to be the necessary one. Certainly the behavior was reported to the bishop earlier. Why wasn’t any action taken then?

Harry’s implicit point that the silence from the GOA hierarchy is due to internal problems seems sound. I used to puzzle over the silence from the hierarchy about the crucial moral issues tearing the culture apart. I always thought it exhibited an unwillingness to risk political capital (Sarbannes, Snowe, etc.). Now I wonder if the problem is not that they are unwilling, but that internal conditions render them incapable of the necessary and proper responses.

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By: Michael Bauman https://www.aoiusa.org/bp-michael-oca-defends-traditional-marriage/#comment-20620 Tue, 28 Jun 2011 23:06:28 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=10178#comment-20620 AFTER THE FACT. Real easy to do. How about the heavy lifting of teaching it in the parishes and applying liturgical discipline to those who disagree and the pastoral guidance and support of a real confessor to bring help and healing to those suffering from the affliction. The strategy seems to be ignore and pontificate. Lay folks quickly see through that as the hypocrisy that it is. Sorry. No kudos here at all from me. If he sent out a pastoral letter to his priests instructing them on how to deal with the issues at a parish level in a pastoral manner, that I could believe. Absent that he is saying he believes in green cheese.

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By: George Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/bp-michael-oca-defends-traditional-marriage/#comment-20619 Tue, 28 Jun 2011 20:16:01 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=10178#comment-20619 In reply to Harry Coin.

Un-bloody-believable. I guess he does understand the moral impact of these actions at least.

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By: Harry Coin https://www.aoiusa.org/bp-michael-oca-defends-traditional-marriage/#comment-20615 Tue, 28 Jun 2011 15:52:04 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=10178#comment-20615 The voice of the GOA? At the time this was being debated we had this from GOA’s Bishop Andonios:

GOA Bishop Andonios: clergy gay truckstop trysts not necessarily unethical

TNH Reporter Asks: Why he has [Fr. Recachinas, caught doing and soliciting for
gay sex at truck stops] requested to resign?

Bishop Andonios of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese: For personal reasons.

TNH: Did he tell what are those personal reasons?

Andonios: I am not going to tell you anything more. The only thing I tell is
that he has not done anything illegal.

TNH: Has he done anything unethical?

Andonios: Not necessarily.

What was he thinking!! “Not Necessarily” unethical? Please now!

Sources:

Parishioners Say Their Priest Cruised Truck Stops for Sex
http://www.pokrov.org/display.asp?ds=Article&id=1668

Critical Moment For The Church
http://www.pokrov.org/display.asp?ds=Article&id=1669

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By: Dn Brian Patrick Mitchell https://www.aoiusa.org/bp-michael-oca-defends-traditional-marriage/#comment-20614 Tue, 28 Jun 2011 15:19:54 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=10178#comment-20614 In reply to George Michalopulos.

Now if we can just get a bishop to tell us what to do about the openly gay couples communing in our churches. (Or maybe +Michael’s line about not condemning anyone means they get a pass.)

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By: George Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/bp-michael-oca-defends-traditional-marriage/#comment-20613 Tue, 28 Jun 2011 13:10:50 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=10178#comment-20613 AXIOS!!! What makes him worthy is not merely the content (which is superb), or the fact that he is the only NY-based bishop to speak out, but that he is speaking out on his own authority as a Teacher of the Church. In doing so, he is repudiating the Stokovite heresy which states that a bishop must clear his schedule with the Lesser Synod, the Metropolitan Council and the janitor in Syosset.

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