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Comments on: Archbishop of Canterbury to deliver Schmemann Lecture and receive honorary doctorate at St. Vladimir’s Seminary https://www.aoiusa.org/archbishop-of-canterbury-to-deliver-schmemann-lecture-and-receive-honorary-doctorate-at-st-vladimirs-seminary/ A Research and Educational Organization that engages the cultural issues of the day within the Orthodox Christian Tradition Thu, 21 Jan 2010 23:26:18 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.3.3 By: St Vladimir’s Seminary and Archbishop Rowan Williams: Facing Up to Our Differences | Koinonia https://www.aoiusa.org/archbishop-of-canterbury-to-deliver-schmemann-lecture-and-receive-honorary-doctorate-at-st-vladimirs-seminary/#comment-8353 Thu, 21 Jan 2010 23:26:18 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=5424#comment-8353 […] Rowan Williams (see for example the conversation on the American Orthodox Institute’s The Observer). According to the press release from the seminary, Archbishop Williams is being granted this […]

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By: Christopher https://www.aoiusa.org/archbishop-of-canterbury-to-deliver-schmemann-lecture-and-receive-honorary-doctorate-at-st-vladimirs-seminary/#comment-8338 Thu, 21 Jan 2010 06:19:59 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=5424#comment-8338 In reply to George Michalopulos.

My apologies, I was being sarcastic…;)

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By: Michael Bauman https://www.aoiusa.org/archbishop-of-canterbury-to-deliver-schmemann-lecture-and-receive-honorary-doctorate-at-st-vladimirs-seminary/#comment-8328 Wed, 20 Jan 2010 23:06:18 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=5424#comment-8328 Recognized academic brilliance in this day and age comes only at the price of sacrificing one’s integrity on the altar of egalitarianism and other secular ideologies. If you don’t you are considered ignorant, backward and/or crazy.

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By: George Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/archbishop-of-canterbury-to-deliver-schmemann-lecture-and-receive-honorary-doctorate-at-st-vladimirs-seminary/#comment-8327 Wed, 20 Jan 2010 22:24:53 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=5424#comment-8327 Christopher, my criticism was not so much as against Williams but the liberal drift in our major academic institutions. I remember reading a book of enconia to the late, great Jaroslav Pelikan a couple of years ago. He was a great scholar, perhaps the greatest of the 20th century. And the lectures in his honor were from very intelligent, accomplished academics. But I wanted to hurl every time one of them mentioned the Koran or quoted from it. Why? To show how multi-culti they all were? Why stop there? Why not quote from The Book of Mormon? Or the Bhagavad Gita?

Academic brilliance is a wonderful thing to have, we should demand nothing less from the professors in our academies, but holiness if more important still. I remember reading several years ago about a conversation between a highly-educated Jesuit and a simple layman. The Jesuit talked about his degrees and such. He was a very worldly man. The layman was not impressed, he responded by saying “perhaps you should have prayed more and studied less.”

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By: Christopher https://www.aoiusa.org/archbishop-of-canterbury-to-deliver-schmemann-lecture-and-receive-honorary-doctorate-at-st-vladimirs-seminary/#comment-8271 Mon, 18 Jan 2010 20:17:09 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=5424#comment-8271 In reply to George Michalopulos.

Either way, I’d just as soon as this be the last type of such a lecture. Enough of the liberals. They no longer bring anything of intellectual merit –or spiritual–to the table. To all those traditional Christians who are in the lamestream barely-Christic denominations, I say: get on board or get out of the way.

Now you just being sectarian…;)

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By: George Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/archbishop-of-canterbury-to-deliver-schmemann-lecture-and-receive-honorary-doctorate-at-st-vladimirs-seminary/#comment-8263 Sun, 17 Jan 2010 13:46:21 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=5424#comment-8263 I’m torn on this one. Although I agree in the main that this is a type of mostly unfortunate academic glory-seeking, it says much for the academic standards of SVS that Williams would go there rather than Holy Cross. After all, a strong case can certainly be made that the GOA/Phanar is far more desperate for such attention-getting events than all other jurisdictions combined. Certainly their Gaia-drift is more in tune with the spirit of the times than the other jurisdictions.

The only reason why Williams didn’t go to HC thatI can think of it seems to me because it is more academically inconsequential in the higher education scope of things. And it’s possible that there may be some behind-the-scenese stuff going on between +Jonah and Canterbury so we shouldn’t automatically dismiss this as just another case of political correctness/liberalism. I’m thinking along the lines of a positive escalation from the recent Nashotah House colloquium. Possibly (thinking aloud here) having both primates speak face-to-face and coming up with some type of entente where Anglican parishes will be allowed to join the OCA in a more face-saving way. Maybe they want to foreclose the possibility of +Jonah and/or +Kirill doing to them what the Pope did (which btw, I applaud His Holiness for doing). I dunno, I could be wrong. Probably am.

Either way, I’d just as soon as this be the last type of such a lecture. Enough of the liberals. They no longer bring anything of intellectual merit –or spiritual–to the table. To all those traditional Christians who are in the lamestream barely-Christic denominations, I say: get on board or get out of the way.

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By: Eliot Ryan https://www.aoiusa.org/archbishop-of-canterbury-to-deliver-schmemann-lecture-and-receive-honorary-doctorate-at-st-vladimirs-seminary/#comment-8239 Fri, 15 Jan 2010 14:04:03 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=5424#comment-8239 In reply to Michael Bauman.

Fr Seraphim’s search for Truth was very long, intense and honest. The Scripture says “ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you” and indeed, he found it abundantly. He found a miracle worker St John Maximovich.

Indeed “it would be really nice to have folks who are really working on the spiritual formation of our priests and not just their education”. Perhaps it does not work this way. One has to search to find a spiritual master, to have desire to find one. Without this desire you can have one next to you and not notice him.

As for the “OJT (on the job training) type” services and innovations in the Church, it appears to me that the words (prophecies) of St. Anatoly of Optina are coming increasingly true:
http://www.stvladimirs.ca/library/instructions-anatoly-optina.html

My child, know that in the last days hard times will come, as the Apostle says, behold due to poverty in piety, in churches the heresies and schisms will appear”, and as the Holy Fathers foretold, than on the thrones of hierarchs and in monasteries, there will be no men tested and experienced in the spiritual life. Wherefore, heresies will
spread everywhere and deceive many. The enemy of the human kind will act skillfully, if possible, leading the chosen ones to heresy.

Therefore, my son, when you see in the Church mocking of the Divine act, teaching of the Fathers, and God-established order, know that the heretics have already appeared, even though for some time they might hide their evil intentions, or will unnoticeably deform the divine faith, to better succeed by deceiving and tricking the
inexperienced .

They will persecute not only the pastors, but also the servants of God, for the devil who is directing the heresy cannot bear living in Divine order. Like wolfs in sheep skin, they will be recognized by their vainglorious nature, love for lust, and lust for power – those will be betrayers causing hatred and malice everywhere; and therefore the Lord said that one will recognize them by their fruits. The true servants of God are – meek, brother loving and obedient to the Church(order,traditions..).

Indeed, we must say, “Lord have mercy on us!”
and:

Fear the Lord, my son!, don’t lose the received wreath, not to be rejected by Christ into the utter darkness and eternal suffering.

Bravely stand in faith, and if needed joyfully endure persecutions and other troubles, for than the Lord will stand by you…and holy Martyrs and Confessors with joyfully watch at your struggle.

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By: Chrys https://www.aoiusa.org/archbishop-of-canterbury-to-deliver-schmemann-lecture-and-receive-honorary-doctorate-at-st-vladimirs-seminary/#comment-8236 Fri, 15 Jan 2010 03:11:46 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=5424#comment-8236 I suspect that SVS may be confused about the nature of their purpose and mission. Following in the footsteps of the “eminent” seminaries and divinity schools around them, it appears that they may be trying to straddle two opposed goals: academic prestige (which, in this world, requires a lot of political conformity) or priestly formation. The first has lots of perks and status, you get invited to all the best colloquia and it makes fund raising A LOT easier. The second is certainly a more humble path, a more – er – narrow path. And they don’t invite genuine spiritual fathers to too many soirees. Of course, the academic confabs don’t change too many lives either (unless it is to advance one’s career). It’s the choice between a really shiny whitewashed tomb and the empty tomb of the resurrection.
Better they should take the cross and leave the world to its perishing crowns.

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By: Michael Bauman https://www.aoiusa.org/archbishop-of-canterbury-to-deliver-schmemann-lecture-and-receive-honorary-doctorate-at-st-vladimirs-seminary/#comment-8232 Thu, 14 Jan 2010 17:50:47 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=5424#comment-8232 In reply to Eliot Ryan.

Fr. Seraphim Rose wrote frequently that it was more important to have the mind of the Fathers than to know the Fathers. I’m am virtually certain that Mr. Williams does not have the mind of the Fathers nor, apparently, do those we have put in charge of the education of our priests. Since I don’t either, it would be really nice to have folks who are really working on the spiritual formation of our priests and not just their education.

Fr. Chad continues to bewilder me. I know him a little. I was present at the reception of his Salina, KS Episcopal congregation into the Church (the final straw was the ordination of women). Surely he knows better, but the majority of his catechesis has been of the OJT (on the job training) type.

Fr John Behr in his book, The Mystery of Christ, seems to say that academic theology is dangerous and ultimately non-salvific (unless I am simply reading my own bias into his words).

Lord have mercy on us.

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By: George Michalopulos https://www.aoiusa.org/archbishop-of-canterbury-to-deliver-schmemann-lecture-and-receive-honorary-doctorate-at-st-vladimirs-seminary/#comment-8230 Thu, 14 Jan 2010 08:13:28 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=5424#comment-8230 In reply to Fr Gregory.

I think that the further a clergyman, bishop, and congregation get from the East Coast, the more immune they are to becoming academic bigwig groupies. That’s why if there is hope for this country, it’s going to be in the Red States (altough I’m sure best and the brightest will do their best to destroy this part of the country as well).

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By: Fr Gregory https://www.aoiusa.org/archbishop-of-canterbury-to-deliver-schmemann-lecture-and-receive-honorary-doctorate-at-st-vladimirs-seminary/#comment-8225 Wed, 13 Jan 2010 21:58:56 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=5424#comment-8225 In reply to Christopher.

Christopher, your speculation on the impact of size and immigrant influence has merit. Having never been Protestant, I can’t speak to what happens in their congregations. But I haven’t there to be significant differences on the matter between Catholics and Orthodox Christians. Nor have I found “convert” clergy and laity any more immune to the “prestige disease” than their “cradle” counterparts. I would be remiss if I didn’t point out that there seems to be no difference on the matter between theological or social liberals and their conservatives opposite numbers.

Strictly speaking, the prestige disease (i.e., vainglory) is part of what Christ comes to save us from

In Christ,

+FrG

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By: Eliot Ryan https://www.aoiusa.org/archbishop-of-canterbury-to-deliver-schmemann-lecture-and-receive-honorary-doctorate-at-st-vladimirs-seminary/#comment-8224 Wed, 13 Jan 2010 21:53:21 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=5424#comment-8224 It is ‘understandable’ that the worldly people are worldly, but a seminary is not just an ordinary “academic community”. It is a place were young men are being formed/educated to become our guides to the kingdom. What they should value is not prestige but the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

The “Oxford professor who espouses moral positions contrary to both natural law and the Gospel” is not a good role model. I go by what Michel said:” I am deeply disappointed in the actions of St. Vlads in inviting Mr. Williams”

The topic “Theology and the Contemplative Calling: The Image of Humility in the Philokalia” is something that I would be very interested in. The bad part is that mixing good things (Philokalia – ” a collection of texts written between the fourth and fifteenth centuries by spiritual masters of the Eastern Orthodox hesychast tradition”) and bad personal influences has the potential to make everything stinky, even dangerous.

So, I don’t look forward the the Archbishop’s presentation.

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By: Christopher https://www.aoiusa.org/archbishop-of-canterbury-to-deliver-schmemann-lecture-and-receive-honorary-doctorate-at-st-vladimirs-seminary/#comment-8220 Wed, 13 Jan 2010 21:04:27 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=5424#comment-8220 In reply to Fr Gregory.

What complicates this (and forgive me for waxing sociological) is that a similar emphasis on social status is also often operative in religious communities, and this includes the Orthodox Church.

I think this is understated – I would say “especially in the Orthodox Church”. My experience has been that these forces have been stronger than any of my previous protestant churches. My speculation is that small size and outsized immigrant influence magnify these forces…

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By: Fr Gregory https://www.aoiusa.org/archbishop-of-canterbury-to-deliver-schmemann-lecture-and-receive-honorary-doctorate-at-st-vladimirs-seminary/#comment-8218 Wed, 13 Jan 2010 20:10:29 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=5424#comment-8218 For better or worse (mostly worse), in the academic community the standard of success is neither truth nor financial profit but prestige. In this case, an Oxford professor who espouses moral positions contrary to both natural law and the Gospel holds a higher rank than, say, a monastic or a lay missionary. All of this is to say that Michael is right when he say (#3) that this is a gathering of the old boy’s club.

What complicates this (and forgive me for waxing sociological) is that a similar emphasis on social status is also often operative in religious communities, and this includes the Orthodox Church. To be sure how we signal status is different–sitting arrangements, clothing, and jewelry come to mind–but the underlying social dynamics between the religious and academic communities are largely the same. We value prestige, the good opinion of others. Within limits this isn’t bad, even as a desire for financial profit isn’t bad. But untempered the latter is simply greed, the former vainglory and both are sins.

I look forward the the Archbishop’s presentation.

In Christ,

+FrG

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By: Eliot Ryan https://www.aoiusa.org/archbishop-of-canterbury-to-deliver-schmemann-lecture-and-receive-honorary-doctorate-at-st-vladimirs-seminary/#comment-8207 Tue, 12 Jan 2010 21:41:14 +0000 https://www.aoiusa.org/?p=5424#comment-8207 And the lecture will be podcast by Ancient Faith Radio …

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