Andrew, he’d fit right in our current EA.
]]>Yes this is the man you gave a doctorate to. Nothing like giving an award to a bishop who actually says “Pass” to serious questions.
]]>Oso
]]>Dr. Williams is nothing in relation to the hierarchy and teaching of the Church. He is an outside commentator who’s theological positions are severely at odds with the Church. To honor him with a degree from an Orthodox Seminary gives him more standing than he previously had and lends support to those who disagree with the traditional anthropology of the Church–an anthropology which has its source in the hypostatic union of man and God in Jesus Christ.
]]>We’ll know the final results of this only in the future. Will we see continued missteps by the faculty or will this most recent Schmemann Lecture be the last of its kind? Obviously, I’m holding out for the latter. In that case, it would mean that the faculty learned their lesson.
]]>Christopher, you are right. You almost feel like SVS and its glitterati are simply hoisting one giant noble lie on the faithful. The elitism here is perhaps the greatest tragedy.
]]>Christoper, I don’t see it as defiant at all. As a rule, defiant people don’t put out press releases that cover all the bases. This is just a classic case of CYA. They dropped the ball on this pure and simple. Williams was just going to be in town, he’s said and written wonderful essays in the past on Orthodox spirituality, there are close ties between him and a couple of the professors (and let’s not forget +Bishop Ware’s involvement in this, and he’s an EP bishop), so it seemed like a win-win. Bring ACNA bishops and give them one more chance to try and work things out, etc. And because the professoriate at SVS is primarily academically inclined, they couldn’t see the pastoral implications of such an inept move. They wouldn’t have put out the press release if this wasn’t all a big CYA.
I’ll grant you that if we see more of these things in the future, then I’ll re-read the press release and the “defiant” tones will probably leap off the page at that point. I’ll definately apologize if I’m wrong.
]]>Michael, I’m glad that you pin a lot of the blame for this on the laity. I agree with you that the magesterium of the Church is to “be held in trust” by all Orthodox. Our bishops of course are held to a higher standard because they are tasked to be teachers but ultimately they can do nothing without us. We can hold them back and throw sand in their eyes and thus derail them from their mission.
I’ve been hard on our bishops here in America, but I will say that in the matter of unity, they appear more receptive to it than the laity. (Of course, except for Russia, the Old World bishops have always been against it, so I can’t give the episcopate as a whole a pass.) I’ve run into just too many Orthodox laypeople who are at best apathetic about unity. I’d say only about 20% care about it making it happen, 30% are actively hostile, and the remaining 50% either don’t know or don’t care.
]]>Christopher, I don’t believe that ACNA is under illusions about the power of the ABC to correct the problems in ECUSA. Nor do I believe for a moment that the OCA is trying to buttress any such forlon hopes. I believe that +Jonah’s repeated offers to ACNA are correct: they need to jump the sinking ship and swim to the liferaft.
Having said that, I believe what we are witnessing here is not any hope for theological reconciliation between ACNA and the ABC, but the pull of ethnic ties, pure and simple. We see this displayed in Orthodoxy even (although w/out the scandal of heresy). Though mundane things such as blood ties should never be a consideration (after all Jesus came to “divide father from son, mother from daughter, etc.) it is a powerful draw nonetheless. One in which all weak and fallen humans succumb to. Including we Orthodox.
If you will permit me to expand on this:
All of the ethnic jurisdictions cannot find the moral courage to cut their ties to their respective mother countries and come together in a spirit of love and friendship. The putative Episcopal Assemblies thus are a concession to our human weaknesses, that is, the necessity to remain tethered to the Old Country and the incessant harping on diptychs. Viewed properly, this concession and the Rube Goldberg apparatus that is going to serve as the EA’s operating principles are in reality a cause for scandal. (That’s why I think that they may ultimately fail.) I can assure you, if we Orthodox had evangelistic zeal and a proper understanding of Church formation, we would not need them.
Even the OCA is not without sin in this regard: they broke their ties with Mother Russia because they had no choice; even then it took them 50 years to do so. What’s sobering about this, is that if it wasn’t for the depredations of Stalin and his successors, the OCA would probably still be an eparchy of Moscow. (God indeed works in mysterious ways.)
Anyway, please forgive the rant. I’m just trying to be charitable to ACNA and maybe offer another perspective that those of who are Orthodox may not understand. (BTW, I hope I’m wrong about the EAs. I mean that I hope that they do succeed and independent and united local churches sprout up in every nation and that their ethnicity is based on the ethnos or nation in which they reside.)
]]>Amen! Excellent post.
Our “robed betters” would answer this way (this is how Fr. Hopko answered a question from the audience at the lecture I attended – well, not quite like this đŸ˜‰ ) :
If one is “strong in the faith” (he had a quote from a father) one can go talk to “lesbians and witches” and do all sorts of things that appear to “separate ones work from the faith” but in fact they know what they are doing – and have God’s grace to back them up. It only appears sophistic to the unwashed masses and those unfortunate enough to have been born a member of the peanut gallery. If we were faithful Orthodox we would recognize this charisma in our robbed betters – after all, they do teach theology. They are above the lessons of history, the spirit of the age, and the other mundane temptations the rest of us have to take note of. If they appear to be a Christianized version of Plato’s Philosopher Kings, well that’s because they are. It’s best just to enclose your check when you get the appeal and not ask questions that are far above your rank…
]]>I took the ACNA to be looking past the person and at they symbol – trying to make the best of the situation given their own motivations and goals. Even if they do not see Dr. Williams for what he is the Orthodox should be helping them see it – not muddling the issues. Looks like a lot of politics and positioning, scratching of backs, etc. Seems like if your this patient with it in this context you would be just as patient with it for practical politicians.
Of course I already disagree that this was a “mistake” – it was deliberate. As you put it with GOA, they just did not care (about the implications for traditional Anglicans such as Fr. Reardon and I were in the past). It’s a betrayal of responsibility that is not isolated – it’s an MO that goes back for some time.
Your right in that it has it’s roots in a progressive/liberal culture and mindset, though I am not sure why you think it will change (unless you are simply referring to the fact that it will change with the winds of the culture). I see no evidence that they even see the need to be counter culture. Are you referring to the fact that these dinosaurs (i.e. the seminary staff and the bishops of the OCA) will eventually fall asleep in the Lord?? If Orthodoxy is going to have anything to say to Christians and the larger culture it’s going to have to be counter-cultural. Anyone know where that Church is?
]]>“When one lies down with dogs, one gets up with fleas.” Heretical beliefs create heretical commentary. It is such a euphamism to express it as “anti-traditionalist” rather than calling it by its real name: apostasy or heresy.
There, Fr. Hans, is real moral equivalency. All thought is equal, just some thought is more equal than others.
We have to decide whether we want our bishops and other leaders to be organically part of the the community of faith or not. So far most folks seem quite OK with just letting the bishops do there own thing as they are irrelevant to our personal lives and faith. We can hold to the truth no matter what they do.
That, too, goes against the teaching of the Church. The faith is not held by individuals, it is a trust of the entire community under the guidance and protection of the Holy Spirit.
If we continue to act as fancy-dress protestants, the Orthodox Church will become even more irrelevant than it is now. The Church will survive, by the grace of God, but most will have abandoned her.
The bishops and leaders are simply acting as we have told them we want them to act since we have been largely apathetic and silent. Why should they not be surprised when some folks begin to hunger for real Orthoodox community and say so. Of course, that means that not only would the bishops be more present in our lives, we’d actually have to be obedient. Perhaps that’s why we’ve allowed them to drift away from us all these years?
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