Comments on: Before the Manhattan Declaration: ‘A Letter from America’s Religious Leaders in Defense of Marriage’ http://www.aoiusa.org/blog/2009/12/before-the-manhattan-declaration-a-letter-from-americas-religious-leaders-in-defense-of-marriage/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=before-the-manhattan-declaration-a-letter-from-americas-religious-leaders-in-defense-of-marriage American Orthodox Institute Wed, 08 Sep 2010 12:01:12 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Fr. Johannes Jacobse http://www.aoiusa.org/blog/2009/12/before-the-manhattan-declaration-a-letter-from-americas-religious-leaders-in-defense-of-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-8067 Fr. Johannes Jacobse Fri, 25 Dec 2009 15:09:06 +0000 http://www.aoiusa.org/blog/?p=5257#comment-8067 Sure. http://www.aoiusa.org/blog/2009/12/met-isaiah-speaks-out-against-same-sex-marriage/ Sure. http://www.aoiusa.org/blog/2009/12/met-isaiah-speaks-out-against-same-sex-marriage/

]]> By: George Michalopulos http://www.aoiusa.org/blog/2009/12/before-the-manhattan-declaration-a-letter-from-americas-religious-leaders-in-defense-of-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-8065 George Michalopulos Fri, 25 Dec 2009 14:17:30 +0000 http://www.aoiusa.org/blog/?p=5257#comment-8065 Christ is born! Fr, can we post +Isaiah's letter on the website? It's very didactic and well-reasoned. Christ is born! Fr, can we post +Isaiah’s letter on the website? It’s very didactic and well-reasoned.

]]> By: Fr. Johannes Jacobse http://www.aoiusa.org/blog/2009/12/before-the-manhattan-declaration-a-letter-from-americas-religious-leaders-in-defense-of-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-8064 Fr. Johannes Jacobse Fri, 25 Dec 2009 13:06:01 +0000 http://www.aoiusa.org/blog/?p=5257#comment-8064 I applaud Met. Isaiah for his faithfulness to Orthodox teaching, and especially for clarifying it through this protocol when he was challenged by a Greek Orthodox parishioner. However, is he aware that it puts him at odds with his immediate hierarch, the Ecumenical Patriarch, who has a <a href="http://www.aoiusa.org/blog/2009/10/a-patriarch-who-generally-speaking-respects-human-life/" rel="nofollow">more libertine view</a> of Orthodox moral teaching? Secondly, why the apologetic tone? Why the overstatement about not condemning people? Clearly, the parishioner challenging him was seriously confused on two issues: 1) same-sex marriage, and 2) moral relativism. Clarify both in the message. Teach the person that drawing moral distinctions and condemning people are two different things, and say so in unequivocal and unapologetic terms. I applaud Met. Isaiah for his faithfulness to Orthodox teaching, and especially for clarifying it through this protocol when he was challenged by a Greek Orthodox parishioner.

However, is he aware that it puts him at odds with his immediate hierarch, the Ecumenical Patriarch, who has a more libertine view of Orthodox moral teaching?

Secondly, why the apologetic tone? Why the overstatement about not condemning people? Clearly, the parishioner challenging him was seriously confused on two issues: 1) same-sex marriage, and 2) moral relativism. Clarify both in the message. Teach the person that drawing moral distinctions and condemning people are two different things, and say so in unequivocal and unapologetic terms.

]]> By: George Michalopulos http://www.aoiusa.org/blog/2009/12/before-the-manhattan-declaration-a-letter-from-americas-religious-leaders-in-defense-of-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-8060 George Michalopulos Thu, 24 Dec 2009 16:44:11 +0000 http://www.aoiusa.org/blog/?p=5257#comment-8060 I've always said, that within the GOA, +Isaiah is problably the only "stand up kind of guy." After all, he was a Marine. I’ve always said, that within the GOA, +Isaiah is problably the only “stand up kind of guy.” After all, he was a Marine.

]]> By: Michael Bauman http://www.aoiusa.org/blog/2009/12/before-the-manhattan-declaration-a-letter-from-americas-religious-leaders-in-defense-of-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-8056 Michael Bauman Thu, 24 Dec 2009 15:27:15 +0000 http://www.aoiusa.org/blog/?p=5257#comment-8056 Christ is Born! A wonderful post by Fr. Stephen Freeman: http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2009/12/23/christmas-in-general/ Glorify Him! Christ is Born!

A wonderful post by Fr. Stephen Freeman:

http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2009/12/23/christmas-in-general/

Glorify Him!

]]> By: Michael Bauman http://www.aoiusa.org/blog/2009/12/before-the-manhattan-declaration-a-letter-from-americas-religious-leaders-in-defense-of-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-8055 Michael Bauman Thu, 24 Dec 2009 14:21:34 +0000 http://www.aoiusa.org/blog/?p=5257#comment-8055 It is a good message, however I wonder if the parish whose behavior prompted it ever saw the message? At the bottom it says "may" be printed and put in parish bulletins. It does not say it should be. That fact that he felt compelled to issue such a communication as he alludes to is really sad. It is a good message, however I wonder if the parish whose behavior prompted it ever saw the message? At the bottom it says “may” be printed and put in parish bulletins. It does not say it should be.

That fact that he felt compelled to issue such a communication as he alludes to is really sad.

]]> By: Andrew http://www.aoiusa.org/blog/2009/12/before-the-manhattan-declaration-a-letter-from-americas-religious-leaders-in-defense-of-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-8052 Andrew Thu, 24 Dec 2009 01:40:54 +0000 http://www.aoiusa.org/blog/?p=5257#comment-8052 Often times I am highly critical of the GOA/Phanar view on moral issues and the subsequent buffoonery. Make no mistake I believe this criticism is completely well deserved and in order. However, when a bishop stands up and addresses the hard issues facing the Church we should all take note and thank him. So today, I want to point out Metropolitan Isaiah of Denver's (GOA) September 2009 Protocol on Homosexuality and Same Sex Marriage. I am surprised it did not get more attention when it was issued. Today we should take note. It is posted here: <a href="http://www.denver.goarch.org/protocols/2009-Protocols/protocol-09-12.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.denver.goarch.org/protocols/2009-Protocols/protocol-09-12.pdf</a> The Metropolitan's candid words are most welcome. He should be commended for taking the incident he describes and making it an issue of concern for his faithful. Often times I am highly critical of the GOA/Phanar view on moral issues and the subsequent buffoonery. Make no mistake I believe this criticism is completely well deserved and in order. However, when a bishop stands up and addresses the hard issues facing the Church we should all take note and thank him.

So today, I want to point out Metropolitan Isaiah of Denver’s (GOA) September 2009 Protocol on Homosexuality and Same Sex Marriage. I am surprised it did not get more attention when it was issued.
Today we should take note.

It is posted here:

http://www.denver.goarch.org/protocols/2009-Protocols/protocol-09-12.pdf

The Metropolitan’s candid words are most welcome. He should be commended for taking the incident he describes and making it an issue of concern for his faithful.

]]> By: George Michalopulos http://www.aoiusa.org/blog/2009/12/before-the-manhattan-declaration-a-letter-from-americas-religious-leaders-in-defense-of-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-8043 George Michalopulos Wed, 23 Dec 2009 17:48:23 +0000 http://www.aoiusa.org/blog/?p=5257#comment-8043 Or there is no faith in Christ and His Gospel. Or there is no faith in Christ and His Gospel.

]]> By: Michael Bauman http://www.aoiusa.org/blog/2009/12/before-the-manhattan-declaration-a-letter-from-americas-religious-leaders-in-defense-of-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-8042 Michael Bauman Wed, 23 Dec 2009 16:07:14 +0000 http://www.aoiusa.org/blog/?p=5257#comment-8042 I do wonder how it is possible to be tolerant of sin if one actually believes salvation is necessary and desireable? How can we proclaim that we are the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church with the fullness of the faith and be 'tolerant' in the liberal sense of heresy, apostasy and down right blasphemy? Whatever happened to the idea that the way is narrow? How can one repent and be saved unless one is confronted with one's sinfulness? I know I sure don't unless I get some kind of 2X4 between the eyes. There is a hatred here, it is a self-hatred that is founded upon a denial of our need for God's grace and the reality of the fact that "only by me can you come to the Father" Our Lord's mercy permeates us and sustains our life, but if we are to have real life and have it abundantly, we must acknowledge our need of His grace and submit to His love. "Tolerance" is a poor substitute for acquiring the Holy Spirit and entering into the joy of our Lord. "Tolerance" is the mirror image of 'fundamentalism' that seems to be the latest excuse for not living the life of the Church. That is easily seen from the epithets that the tolerant ones hurl at anyone who challenges their idea of tolerance. I do wonder how it is possible to be tolerant of sin if one actually believes salvation is necessary and desireable?

How can we proclaim that we are the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church with the fullness of the faith and be ‘tolerant’ in the liberal sense of heresy, apostasy and down right blasphemy? Whatever happened to the idea that the way is narrow?

How can one repent and be saved unless one is confronted with one’s sinfulness? I know I sure don’t unless I get some kind of 2X4 between the eyes.

There is a hatred here, it is a self-hatred that is founded upon a denial of our need for God’s grace and the reality of the fact that “only by me can you come to the Father”

Our Lord’s mercy permeates us and sustains our life, but if we are to have real life and have it abundantly, we must acknowledge our need of His grace and submit to His love.

“Tolerance” is a poor substitute for acquiring the Holy Spirit and entering into the joy of our Lord. “Tolerance” is the mirror image of ‘fundamentalism’ that seems to be the latest excuse for not living the life of the Church. That is easily seen from the epithets that the tolerant ones hurl at anyone who challenges their idea of tolerance.

]]> By: George Michalopulos http://www.aoiusa.org/blog/2009/12/before-the-manhattan-declaration-a-letter-from-americas-religious-leaders-in-defense-of-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-8041 George Michalopulos Wed, 23 Dec 2009 15:42:59 +0000 http://www.aoiusa.org/blog/?p=5257#comment-8041 You see Michael, that's what I love about "liberals." They're so tolerant. If you don't agree with them, you're the one that's intolerant. You see Michael, that’s what I love about “liberals.” They’re so tolerant. If you don’t agree with them, you’re the one that’s intolerant.

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